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roncz canard cad drawing


airnico

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hello everybody,

 

during the last 2 weeks I was trying to find a long-ez roncz canard cad drawing to cnc cut a foam core set for my open-ez project, but it seems nobody has it.

I asked for some help to the canardzone family and obviously I readily found it!!!

(thank you guys!:D ).unfortunately we only have the Cozy4 canard templates, and we're not sure it's exactly the same as long-ez: may be they have a different chord.....

If anybody is available to send me the long-ez roncz canard templates, or if he is able to assure that we can use the cozy4 templates, the open-ez project will have soon a complete set of canard cad drawing!!

thank you everybody

nico

Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads. (Dr. Emmett Brown)

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hi guys,

 

it's amazing to see how fast things go on canardzone!thank you for your answers.

I suspected that they did not change so much the long-ez canard to use it on the cozy, you EZ-AHAB tell about an extra piece in the middle area, so I think they used long-ez templates as they were and add an extension between the inboard cores to make the span wider: an easy way to have more area with no hazardous alterations.....

thank you EZ-AHAB for the information!

 

you are right Big Steve, on terf cd it's possible to find the proper length and layup schedule: span is 130" as it declared in CP 43, but there's nothing about chord and I could not assume it's the same as I did never compare cozy to long-ez templates.

 

we are working to digitalize the canard, and hope it'll be ready in some days.

It will be available for the open-ez project as soon as possible: I'll keep you informed!

Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads. (Dr. Emmett Brown)

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Here is a link to my website where I have a little animation showing how the canard goes together for the Cozy. I plan on making one like this for the LEZ too but haven't gotten around to it yet. Except for the relative span of the parts it is the same. The mid section just uses the inboard template on both ends.

 

http://pages.suddenlink.net/eurekacnc/

 

Click on "Products" and then click on the canard.

EUREKA CNC

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Extreme Precision CNC Hotwire Cutting

Perfection To The Core!

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  • 4 weeks later...

hi everybody!

 

I'm sorry for it's taking so long with the drawings, but it's really difficult to find the information I need to realize a templates digitized version.

some weeks ago a friend sent me some files containing a cad version of long-EZ roncz canard, but unfortunately these drawings do not contain the trough for the spar cap so I cannot use them to realize the cores:sad: .

I'm not sure the cozy spar cap is the same than long-EZ, so I don't know if it's possible to use it to fill the missing information.

any suggest from you guys??

everything is appreciate!

Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads. (Dr. Emmett Brown)

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I'm not sure the cozy spar cap is the same than long-EZ, so I don't know if it's possible to use it to fill the missing information.

any suggest from you guys??

everything is appreciate!

Why don't you post the cad file (or PM me) and I'll print it on my plotter and compare it to my Roncz drawings for my Long-EZ.

As far as I know, all of the canard aircraft that use this airfoil are working from the same template.

T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18

Velocity/RG N951TM

Mann's Airplane Factory

We add rocket's to everything!

4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done

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I have a few techniques to transfer raster drawings to cad. I also was attempting to convert the drawings to cad but I need some reference measurements. If you could send me your cad file I might be able to assist in converting the remaining plans information.

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hello guys,

 

thank you for your help!!

I did not posted these files only because they are not complete and I did not think they can be useful to someone.

I appreciate very much your availability to work on these files!!

Please just remember that I received them from a friend and I have no possibility to control their accuracy, so be careful and use them under your own responsibility.

I hope you'll be able to add the missing information!

ooops, I have a problem with the file extension: they are .dwg files, but this is not valid as an attachments: I should convert the files in a different extension, but my computer is out of service and I have no autocad installed here at work.....can you(TMann and mfryer) send me your e-mail address so I can send you the files directly?

if someonelse is interested just send me your e-mail.

let me know what comes out...

Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads. (Dr. Emmett Brown)

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Same airfoil, just different spans and an extra piece in the center of the Cozy canard.

I just noticed this post, and it could be extremely misleading, if not dangerous.

 

While the COZY and Long-EZ RONCZ AIRFOIL exterior shapes are identical, chordwise, the cutout for the spar cap (and hence the spar cap itself) is NOT identical. The spar cap cutout on the COZY is deeper. While using the COZY cutout on a Long-EZ would merely cause it to weigh more than it should due to extra material in the cap (and a depression that would need filling, if using the plans spar cap fill), using the Long-EZ cutout for the COZY would lead to an understrength/understiffness canard, and would not allow the appropriate amount of cap material to be put in.

 

I hope that you're using different templates for the two aircraft when cutting the cores, and not shipping Long-EZ cores to COZY builders, and vice-versa.

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hello everybody!!

 

Did you ever post the results of your colaboration?

if you're talking about the cad drawings that I already have, I initially kept them to myself because they are incomplete: the idea was to post them once I found the missing information and completed them, but it's not possible for me to do it in a reasonable time so I decided to share them with you all: may be someone can do the job for me.....

if you want them just send me your e-mail.

 

guys, how can you quote texts from different members?I have to answer three different persons, but it seems like the sistem allows me only to quote Wapaty8(only one I mean..): somebody does it, why can't I??

 

Yes TMann, the spar cap is not there:mad: ....and we can't use these drawings to cut foam cores. I did not plot them because for the moment they are not useful to build the canard, but it wouldn't be a problem to do it.

 

and finally,

 

I think you are right Mark:I supposed that they used the long-EZ templates to realize the cozy canard, just the way they are, with no alterations as the exterior shape is the same, but I've never thought the spar cap is the same....cozy is heavier!!!of course, and this is the reason why I did not simply made a paste and copy from cozy plans to the cad drawings that I received to fill the missing informations.

do you know the right size of the spar cap trough??can you help us to solve the problem?

 

I think the solution is near to come: the number of persons now involved in this discussion is growing up and someone is contacting me outside the forum too!

I'll keep you informed, please do the same for me...

nico

Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads. (Dr. Emmett Brown)

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I just noticed this post, and it could be extremely misleading, if not dangerous.

 

While the COZY and Long-EZ RONCZ AIRFOIL exterior shapes are identical,

!! Thanks Marc for your clarification. I am attempting to produce some drawings of the cannard for the Long-EZ not the COZY.

 

I would presume that anyone building a COZY is using original plans as they are still readily available. Any information gleaned from this discussion I presume is to be used for the Long-EZ.

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I think the solution is near to come: the number of persons now involved in this discussion is growing up and someone is contacting me outside the forum too!

I'll keep you informed, please do the same for me...

I have spent a little time working with the cad files today and what I am finding is encouraging. It will take me some hours before I can share anything.

 

Also I would like to send some full size samples to someone for comparison with an actual cannard and template. If anyone is willing to receive them and provide feedback, please let me know.

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I hope that you're using different templates for the two aircraft when cutting the cores, and not shipping Long-EZ cores to COZY builders, and vice-versa.

I was talking about the airfoil and chord size in that previous post. Thanks Marc for clarifying. I would not have wanted to mislead someone.

 

I have only cut one canard so far and it was for a Cozy. I have never quite finished the LEZ version. If I were home I would be able to clear this up quickly and easily as I have original plans for both aircraft. Unfortunately, I won't get to look at my plans for comparison for another 3 months:irked:. I do know the airfoil shape is the same and I was pretty sure the spar trough was the same depth as well but I didn't comment specifically on that in my original post or later when the discussion was directed at the spar cap thickness because I wasn't sure and couldn't check.

EUREKA CNC

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Extreme Precision CNC Hotwire Cutting

Perfection To The Core!

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hello guys,

 

someone of you can of course give an answer to this question:

what the drawings miss is the spar cap trough as everybody already know and as I said before I did not copy the cozy spar cap because I know it's different,

BUT

what about the long-EZ gu canard spar cap?

we have gu canard templates from open-EZ project, don't you think it's well dimensioned to our use?

it comes from the same plane, same weight, same g-factor, may be it would work....

can't we copy it in the cad drawings??

any comment/suggest??

nico

Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads. (Dr. Emmett Brown)

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<Step in here Marc or anyone, if I'm out in left field>

 

If you mean using the GU spar cap on a roncz canard then NO, the lay-up schedule and the materials are different.

 

The roncz uses 3" uni tape like the wing spar caps, while the GU uses the standard uni off a 38" roll and is layed up using a folding process during the lay-up.

 

BTW the GU templates are already in the A1-14 Drawings for the Open-EZ...

Long-EZ #582, Hangar 51 Southeast Texas Regional Airport - KBPT

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hello LongEZ-Dave,

 

thank you for joing us!

 

<Step in here Marc or anyone, if I'm out in left field>

 

If you mean using the GU spar cap on a roncz canard then NO, the lay-up schedule and the materials are different.

 

 

we are only interested in the spar cap dimensions: we know the roncz lay-up schedule as it is in the terf cd, the only missing data is the spar trough size:

until now nobody was able to clarify this point.

I can't believe nobody out there has a copy or a scan of the roncz canard templates: ok you cutted them from plans when you built your canard, but may be someone still have the wood or metal shapes used to hot wire the foam cores: I think we could scan them......

is there anybody available to share his templates?I promise he'll get 'em back!!

regards

nico

Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads. (Dr. Emmett Brown)

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hello LongEZ-Dave,

 

thank you for joing us!

 

 

 

 

we are only interested in the spar cap dimensions: we know the roncz lay-up schedule as it is in the terf cd, the only missing data is the spar trough size:

until now nobody was able to clarify this point.

I can't believe nobody out there has a copy or a scan of the roncz canard templates: ok you cutted them from plans when you built your canard, but may be someone still have the wood or metal shapes used to hot wire the foam cores: I think we could scan them......

is there anybody available to share his templates?I promise he'll get 'em back!!

regards

nico

One thing preventing a direct answer to this might be the fact that the current owner of the intellectual property we're talking about (Aircraft Spruce and Supply owns the rights to the Cozy Development Corp materials) has people sign a license agreement when they buy the plans. So plans owners might be a little hesitant to make copies and distribute the materials.

 

Here's the license agreement.

 

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pdf/cozylicense.pdf

 

If you are interested in making parts available to plans owners you could talk directly with Aircraft Spruce and figure something out. Just a suggestion...

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WOW ....... I might be in trouble here. I bought my template drawings from Rutan Aircraft. So ........ who really owns the copyright?

 

And what about the Open-EZ drawings?

T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18

Velocity/RG N951TM

Mann's Airplane Factory

We add rocket's to everything!

4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done

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Let's take a moment to analyze these concerns:

 

WOW ....... I might be in trouble here.

What do you think you did wrong?

 

I bought my template drawings from Rutan Aircraft. So ........ who really owns the copyright?

Copyright to the Roncz canard drawings are likely owned by John Roncz or the Rutan Aircraft Factory. While Aircraft Spruce & Specialty IS selling Cozy Mark IV plans (which happens to include Roncz canard drawings), this does NOT mean that AS&S owns the copyright to these (unless one of the previous parties mentioned specifically transferred ownership).

 

And what about the Open-EZ drawings?

Same scenario as the Roncz drawings. The Open-EZ drawings are for personal and educational use only, falling under 'Fair Use' within the US Copyright law. Refer to the Open-EZ thread for more information on that. The idea is that we, as non-commercial individuals, are building these things for our own educational benefit and as a result are entitled (by law actually) to copy the plans. The same is true for patents. You ARE allowed to pay the US Patent Office ~$3.00 to get a copy of ANY registered patent and build it yourself. You just can't start a business around selling the product.

 

If you are interested in making parts available to plans owners you could talk directly with Aircraft Spruce and figure something out.

This is unnecessary. You can make and sell as many parts as you like based on the Long-EZ, Open-EZ, Roncz, Cozy, etc. plans. This has been ongoing for decades.

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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Back to the original thread, spar cap trough dimensions for Roncz canard on a Long-Ez.

 

Why not just use the Cozy dimensions and make a note that the layup schedule is per Cozy plans, making a slightly heavier canard that's slightly stronger? Tell builders to take a big crap before they fly and it will balance out the weight difference.

 

Or, figure out the reduction in spar cap thickness per the layup schedule differences between the two planes and re-dimension the trough shallower from the Cozy dimensions.

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....the current owner of the intellectual property we're talking about (Aircraft Spruce and Supply owns the rights to the Cozy Development Corp materials) has people sign a license agreement when they buy the plans. So plans owners might be a little hesitant to make copies and distribute the materials.

 

hello CP Tomes, welcome here!

let's see things from another point of view:

I am a builder and am going to build my canard,

you are another builder who already built and flown his canard.

I'm simply asking you a suggest about the correct size of the trough that I'm going to realize: just saying to me: the right size are x-y-z, would you violate any law??I think helping a fellow builder would be no crime...

I asked someone to lend me his metal/wood templates that he used to cut the foam to compare the accuracy of my work: is it a violation?(I'm no expert of American laws).

we are investigating on something that is no more available on the market:the long-EZ canard, who will go mad for this??

nico

Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads. (Dr. Emmett Brown)

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  • 1 month later...

While the COZY and Long-EZ RONCZ AIRFOIL exterior shapes are identical, chordwise, the cutout for the spar cap (and hence the spar cap itself) is NOT identical.

 

I hope that you're using different templates for the two aircraft when cutting the cores, and not shipping Long-EZ cores to COZY builders, and vice-versa.

My Cozy IV canard core profile from Eureka CNC matches the Cozy IV plans perfectly. Great job IMO!

Jon Matcho :busy:
Builder & Canard Zone Admin
Now:  Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E
Next:  Resume building a Cozy Mark IV

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