TMann Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 So, just so I understand this. If one has the berkut plans AND the long-ez/Open-ez plans, one can build a Berkut?Not really. What you could build is a Long-EZ that incorporated many of the innovations that are included in the Berkut plans. Many of the parts that are Berkut specific will be difficult to duplicate. On the bright side, the drawings provide a very clear point of reference for many of the commonalities between the two aircraft and there are many. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynn Erickson Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 So, just so I understand this. If one has the berkut plans AND the long-ez/Open-ez plans, one can build a Berkut? If so, that would be EXTREMELY COOL!not really, the main part of the berkut that makes it a berkut is the fuselage and it was made in a mold. the berkut plans are used to assemble a plane that is made up from molded parts that are no longer being made. the long ez is made from raw materials. Quote Evolultion Eze RG -a two place side by side-200 Knots on 200 HP. A&P / pilot for over 30 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortal Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Would it be utopic to think that we can get the specs (layup schedule) of the molded parts? with this info and a mold, one could make those molded parts, and a companie could build those mold a sell the parts to the poeple interested in an open-berkut... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynn Erickson Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Would it be utopic to think that we can get the specs (layup schedule) of the molded parts? with this info and a mold, one could make those molded parts, and a companie could build those mold a sell the parts to the poeple interested in an open-berkut...I think this comes under the category of YES you can build anything given enough time and money. you know how to make a small fortune in aviation, right , start with a very large one. Quote Evolultion Eze RG -a two place side by side-200 Knots on 200 HP. A&P / pilot for over 30 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPJCP Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 There's been a carbon fiber tub on display last 2 years at Oshkosh. Has been down first row to the left of main gate. But they don't seem interested in selling to builders. JCP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 That was a UAV fuselage. Besides that, CF blocks radio signal which means you can't have an 'in skin' foil antenna. The wing skin on the Berkut is also Carbon Fiber so no antenna there. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortal Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Before looking for someone to build the parts, we need to know the spec of those parts, the ones missing from the berkut's building manual, and that was my original question : can we get this information? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 can we get this information?You can get much of that information from the drawings....... or, just raise the capital and buy the company. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortal Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 or, just raise the capital and buy the company. Ok so no it isn't possible (i'm not that rich! i wouldn't build an EZ if i was!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted May 1, 2009 Share Posted May 1, 2009 Just being realistic. For all the effort and expense you are talking about, you might as well buy the assets from Berkut (molds, vendor relationships, etc.) and get it going again. The biggest problem with the Berkut centered around the price tag. Everyone talks about how much they love the design and performance ....... right up to the point of writing the check for the deposit. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kepEZ Posted May 5, 2009 Share Posted May 5, 2009 e-mail address for john griffiths is not operative and i tried emailing new berkut company beanddi.com, and i am told there are no plans no parts no nothing related to berkut. it sounds like they want to totally blanket berkut past and they are a little angry at berkut loving mob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airnico Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 just visited their website: did they really buy the company just to convert the berkut in a UAV??? Quote Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads. (Dr. Emmett Brown) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 e-mail address for john griffiths is not operative ...Try John dot Griffiths at ca dot rr dot com Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kepEZ Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 just visited their website: did they really buy the company just to convert the berkut in a UAV??? i think the company did not change hands, just same people developing UAV platforms, this is not substantiated though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kepEZ Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 Try John dot Griffiths at ca dot rr dot com sorry this didnt work either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynn Erickson Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 i think the company did not change hands, just same people developing UAV platforms, this is not substantiated though.Dave is building his designs for the people with the money. the government. because every one in homebuilding wants it for cheap, and he could not make a living on every one wanting to be his friend and trying to get a deal. Quote Evolultion Eze RG -a two place side by side-200 Knots on 200 HP. A&P / pilot for over 30 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted May 6, 2009 Share Posted May 6, 2009 ....... not to mention homebuilders only buy them one at a time. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVI Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 Try John dot Griffiths at ca dot rr dot com sorry this didnt work either In case you're still looking for Berkut drawings after almost six years ... Try: John.Griffiths1 (AT) verizon.net The drawings are still available. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Avi, I am in touch with JG for the plans and he mentioned someone building a Berkut in Canada. I am guessing it could be you -- "Another person in Canada is developing his own version of Berkut on computer by going moldless with my drawing set and the Eze set you have". My debate (with myself) is whether to go for Berkut or stick with Long-EZ for which I got drawings for from Ary Glantz. My biggest concern or rather fear is that unline Long-EZ, Berkut was kit-based especially the fuselage was molded. If I spend money to get Berkut drawings and found out that I cant really build Berkut the money is simply wasted. I don't have any fancy goals other than building a simple, nice and fast plane whether it is Long-EZ or Berkut. What is your take on JG's Berkut plans? Can I build a Berkut fuselage out of those plans? Will it require me to build a mold? What about Berkut mechanical parts? I saw on their website Aircraft Spruce sell Long-EZ components but did not see anything for Berkut? Are Long-EZ parts usable on Berkut? Thanks Sohail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Sohail, unless you have a Berkut kit, you cannot truly build a Berkut. You can look for a "Berk-EZ" (search that term or similar), which is an informal enhancement of the Long-EZ to incorporate selected Berkut improvements (the specifics differ based on who you're talking to). The plans you have are a good start to give you an idea of what you're in for. Keep reading and browsing the forums and Internet. Continue to ask questions. 1 Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVI Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 (edited) Avi, I am in touch with JG for the plans and he mentioned someone building a Berkut in Canada. I am guessing it could be you -- "Another person in Canada is developing his own version of Berkut on computer by going moldless with my drawing set and the Eze set you have". My debate (with myself) is whether to go for Berkut or stick with Long-EZ for which I got drawings for from Ary Glantz. My biggest concern or rather fear is that unline Long-EZ, Berkut was kit-based especially the fuselage was molded. If I spend money to get Berkut drawings and found out that I cant really build Berkut the money is simply wasted. I don't have any fancy goals other than building a simple, nice and fast plane whether it is Long-EZ or Berkut. What is your take on JG's Berkut plans? Can I build a Berkut fuselage out of those plans? Will it require me to build a mold? What about Berkut mechanical parts? I saw on their website Aircraft Spruce sell Long-EZ components but did not see anything for Berkut? Are Long-EZ parts usable on Berkut? Thanks Sohail Sohal, seems like you're cross-posting ... here's what I posted to one of your questions yesterday: Posted Yesterday, 03:24 PM Sohail, on 08 Apr 2015 - 12:20 PM, said: CutieDarkFae, Have you reviewed JG drawings? Do you think you can make the plane from those drawings especially the fuselage (of course after research)? Stepping in here for CutieDarkFae. Hope you don't mind. If you're asking whether the JG drawings are complete and detailed enough for you to build a Berkut clone from, the answer would be, "of course after research." Now, having said this, let me further state that the aircraft would not be a "Berkut" because the Berkut kit consisted of numerous molded parts, the fuselage being the largest, and there are no instructions or drawings included in the series for the construction of the respective plugs and molds. The molded longerons are a good example. You're going to have to roll your own. You specifically mentioned the fuselage ... the plans do show the basic fuselage outline, ( 1:10 three-view drawing ) but none of the lofting, and absolutely no details regarding the plug and mold from which the kit fuselages were pulled, so you're not only going to have to design and loft your own fuselage, you're going to have to figure out how to build it. (By then, as they say, you could be well on your way in the construction of a "per plans" LongEZ.) Building a fuselage means either funding the design and construction of a plug and molds, or creating and adapting an alternate one-off method of construction. So, yes, it's possible, "of course after research." If you're asking whether the The John Griffiths drawings are worth the money, they definitely are. If you have more than a casual interest in the Berkut and/or you'd like to build a Berkut, the drawings are the entry fee. In the total cost of building a Berkut, it's a small amount, so for what it's worth, I'd recommend ordering a set. The drawings contain a wealth of information not found anywhere else, and of course, are very well drawn. Disclaimer: I'm not involved in the printing/sales of the drawings in any way, shape of form. I simply bought a set from John Griffiths. Sohal, back again - As I mentioned in CutieDarkFae's thread, the Griffiths' drawings are well worth the money, whether you're building a Berkut or a LongEZ. There's a wealth of information and detail in them. Now, from your post above, it would appear that you're new to canards and have not done the "of course after research" part so it would appear that you would be much better off building a LongEZ with perhaps a stretched nose. Here's why: As complete and detailed as the JG Berkut drawings are, you are in fact going to be designing your own airplane if you attempt to build from his drawings. It's not as difficult as designing an airplane from scratch, it's more like reverse engineering an airplane, but it's still a lot of work, and unless you're prepared to do the tremendous amount of research required - and I'm not talking of weeks of research, nor months of research, but literally years of research - especially for a builder without formal education or the required background, you're much better off building a per plans LongEZ. If a Berkut clone or BerkEZ is the intended goal, then certainly, get the drawings. You'll also need a set of the Berkut build manuals, and a set of the build videos - more research ..."of course after research" If you "don't have any fancy goals other than building a fancy, nice and fast plane whether it's a LongEZ or Berkut" then the LongEZ with a few of the accepted modifications would more than do the job. You'll have a nice, fast airplane, and save years in the build, not to mention thousands of dollars in the long run. If you have more questions, feel free to PM me and I'll give you my email and phone. Edited April 9, 2015 by AVI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sohail Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 Thank Jon and Avi. My bad for cross-posting!! You can tell I am a newcomer to the forum. I am going to order the drawings from JG soon, looks like even if I don't go with Berkut at least I can take some enhancements from this plan/drawings. I am hoping that JG drawings at least have the exact dimension for Berkut fuselage so I can develop a method to build one I have the exact specs. I guess I will stick with Long-EZ (baby steps) for now until I figure out a way to build a Berkut fuselage (with mold or moldless). I must have a removable canard and wings because of my garage door though in the final product. These are the dimensional constraints I have to work with otherwise I am quite flexible. I am sure I will have more questions soon. Thank you for helping me understand what I am getting into. Sohail 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I must have a removable canard and wings because of my garage door though in the final product.The Berkut has a removable canard and wings, just like the Long-EZ. Your approach is as good as any at the moment... you'll know what you want after you get into the Long-EZ for sure. You can always build two... 1 Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Ashton Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 (edited) I guess I will stick with Long-EZ (baby steps) for now until I figure out a way to build a Berkut fuselage (with mold or moldless). It's a smart decision to build from plans that don't need a lot of modification to be usable. Keep in mind that the odds of completing any airplane build are against you. Over 1700 Cozy IV plans have been sold and perhaps 400 completed. The completion rate is higher with the Long-EZ but i'd guess it's still less than 50%. An incomplete project is worth no more than the cost of materials. All your labor is lost. Don't make it harder than it is. :-) The Berkut uses a lot of carbon fiber at $40-50 per yard vs. $7-8 per yard for fiberglass. http://www.acpsales.com/Carbon-Fiber-Woven-Fabrics.html?gclid=CLOgio3r68QCFYQkgQod2hcAVw If you try to substitute fiberglass, you change the engineering and lose the weight advantage. The extra work involved to reverse-engineer a Berkut would be comparable to this Varieze clone: http://www.raptorairworks.com/apps/photos/ Almost all of the metal and special parts to build a Long-EZ are still available through the Cozygirrls. It is fairly easy to build an EZ slightly wider or lengthen the nose for O-320 engines. No one I know of has reverse-engineered an Berkut from scratch. Take a look the EZ projects for sale, too. Lots of value there. Edited April 10, 2015 by Kent Ashton 1 Quote -KentCozy IV N13AM-750 hrs, Long-EZ-85 hrs and sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVI Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 No one I know of has reverse-engineered an Berkut from scratch. Bob Setzer has been working on his A-Solution for a few years now ... http://www.canardzone.com/forum/topic/19036-a-solution/?hl=%2Bbob+%2Bsetzer+%2Ba-solution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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