best engine for LEZ?

[Mynor M B]

Hello every body, I will like to know which would be the best O-320 engine to buy for my LEZ for installation purposes, I will also like to know somebody have a Jabiru 3300 engine in his LEZ or if someone knows if this will work, I like this engine because of: weight= 178 pounds, HP= 120, cylinder 6 and therefor smoother operation, price= $14,900, TBO= 2000 Hrs ...etc but if this engine does not work foe my LEZ than I have the O-320 as the best choice for performance.

I will really appreciate any feedback.

[Chairboy]

The O-320 seems to be the current favorite in terms of weight/performance/ease of install, based on reading up around here. I don't know anything about the Jabiru, but consensus seems to be that you should be ready to invest a significant amount of extra time usually to use an alternate engine because there are few FWF (or backwards, with our planes) solutions outside of the usual Lyosaurus options. I've chosen a non-Lycoming engine for my projects, and I'm ready for the extra work needed, I just want to make sure you're aware ahead of time.

 

Based on the spec alone, 120hp sounds a bit anemic. It's a little more than the O-235, and each of the O-235 flyers I know personally wish they had something with more HP. The price is certainly attractive for a new engine compared to the Lycoming. The conservative part of me notes that you could probably find a low to mid-time O-320 for less and have less heartache on the install at the cost of higher overhaul and maintenance costs. I'm not flying yet, so if someone who's flying or has direct experience comes along and gives me the smackdown, don't let the dulcet tones of my writing prevent you from ignoring me.

[Richard Riley]

As far as I'm concerned, the best engine for a LEZ is a 180 hp injected 360.

 

Mike Melvill and Dick Rutan agree.

[cdavis]

I see Superior has just released their XP-320 engines, including an IO version.

 

If you can afford new, this would be a nice way to go.

[longez360]

Lycoming O-360 parallel valve, H-series pistons, fuel injection.

 

Power-to-weight: 265lbs dry (compared to 255 for the 320 D3G), and 195hp for the 360.

 

Speed: I did a 222KIAS pass down the runway at Mangalore Australia on Sunday, and wish I'd taken it to Jackpot when I had it in the USA to show what the 360 can do. It eats 320 Long EZ's when you have the right prop..

 

Climb: 2200fpm @ 95 KIAS. 1700fpm dual. Cruise climb at 140KIAS.

 

Take-off: Hertzler Prop - awesome.

[Richard Riley]

Lycoming O-360 parallel valve, H-series pistons, fuel injection.

 

Power-to-weight: 265lbs dry (compared to 255 for the 320 D3G), and 195hp for the 360.

 

Speed: I did a 222KIAS pass down the runway at Mangalore Australia on Sunday, and wish I'd taken it to Jackpot when I had it in the USA to show what the 360 can do. It eats 320 Long EZ's when you have the right prop..

 

Climb: 2200fpm @ 95 KIAS. 1700fpm dual. Cruise climb at 140KIAS.

 

Take-off: Hertzler Prop - awesome.

What's your WOT level low altitude speed? (I'm assuming the 222 KIAS was with some downhill smash)

[longez360]

Richard, my best WOT speed was out to 212KIAS (sea level) - this was pre my new induction mod and with a Klaus prop (shortened 2"). I was spilling a lot of air out of my Berkut cetreline scoop. I was using it solely for ram air. I also had a significantly undersized bracket air filter with the same cross secion as the scoop (not good). I opened up the firewall and made the firewall exit elliptical (refelcted the Berkut centreline scoop shape on top of the scoop size already there). This encroached into the hell hole area, so I made a carbon tunnel that expands from the standard Berkut scoop inlet size back to the larger exit at the firewall. The K&N 2710 filter pokes down into the scoop, and has a model aircraft spinner on the front to help the air flow around the filter. The tunnel also has a very small triangular exit next to the filter which allows air to bleed back to the standard Berkut mounted oil cooler. Works great. Oil temps down significantly, CHT's balanced and speed went up 6 knots. I also now have a leak proof filtration system. The driving factor iis when I do eventually switch to downdraft cooling, I can add a tunnel (Kuchemann and Weber style) running from the small triangular exit back to the oil cooler face, and copletely close off oil and induction. That way, downdraft is a cylinder and accessories cooling issue only, and the oil cooler will see air across it's entire face and not just the centre. The Hetzler prop is stellar. I want to get Gary to make me one with more pitch, but takeoff now is like being shot out of a cannon compared to the Klaus prop you and I used to use. Still like my Klaus prop for cross countries and lower fuel burn.

 

The Mangalore fly-buys were certainly dived into, but it doesn't take much! I could go through 230KIAS if I had the stomach. There was zero turbulence and nil wind on the day. The fastest it's ever TAS'ed was 242KTAS over Mt.Baker in beautiful Seattle, WA. My girlfriend KAte and I were descending, it was dead still, and my Rocky Mtn uE made the calc.

 

I love the O-360, and wouldn't swap it for anything. On a good day I'm probably out to 215KTAS, but want to get some serious numbers for confirmation. I hate it when people talk dribble about airspeeds!

 

Cheers

[Richard Riley]

Richard, my best WOT speed was out to 212KIAS (sea level) - this was pre my new induction mod and with a Klaus prop (shortened 2"). I was spilling a lot of air out of my Berkut cetreline scoop. I was using it solely for ram air. I also had a significantly undersized bracket air filter with the same cross secion as the scoop (not good). I opened up the firewall and made the firewall exit elliptical (refelcted the Berkut centreline scoop shape on top of the scoop size already there). This encroached into the hell hole area, so I made a carbon tunnel that expands from the standard Berkut scoop inlet size back to the larger exit at the firewall. The K&N 2710 filter pokes down into the scoop, and has a model aircraft spinner on the front to help the air flow around the filter. The tunnel also has a very small triangular exit next to the filter which allows air to bleed back to the standard Berkut mounted oil cooler. Works great. Oil temps down significantly, CHT's balanced and speed went up 6 knots. I also now have a leak proof filtration system. The driving factor iis when I do eventually switch to downdraft cooling, I can add a tunnel (Kuchemann and Weber style) running from the small triangular exit back to the oil cooler face, and copletely close off oil and induction. That way, downdraft is a cylinder and accessories cooling issue only, and the oil cooler will see air across it's entire face and not just the centre. The Hetzler prop is stellar. I want to get Gary to make me one with more pitch, but takeoff now is like being shot out of a cannon compared to the Klaus prop you and I used to use. Still like my Klaus prop for cross countries and lower fuel burn.

 

The Mangalore fly-buys were certainly dived into, but it doesn't take much! I could go through 230KIAS if I had the stomach. There was zero turbulence and nil wind on the day. The fastest it's ever TAS'ed was 242KTAS over Mt.Baker in beautiful Seattle, WA. My girlfriend KAte and I were descending, it was dead still, and my Rocky Mtn uE made the calc.

 

I love the O-360, and wouldn't swap it for anything. On a good day I'm probably out to 215KTAS, but want to get some serious numbers for confirmation. I hate it when people talk dribble about airspeeds!

 

I agree. Tiger Tim still thinks the 320 is faster. Of course, he probably also thinks Jimmy Carter was a great President.

 

Those are terrific speeds, the best I got out of mine was 206 KTAS (also uE calced) but that was in primer and with a tired, stock engine. I think there are 2 big drag points to go after now - cooling, and winglet intersection. I'm not going to address either in this rebuild (of the 540 Berkut) I'm just modifying things that I consider to be safety issues. You're exactly right about the air filter, a LOT of EZs are flying with filters that are too small, per K&N's recommendation. I'm trying to build one right now that has a small round filter inside a large oval filter, to increase the total square inches, because I'm using the largest oval I can fit.

 

I can't quite visualize what you're proposing for the oil cooler in a downdraft cooling setup.

[Drew Swenson]

<snip>I can't quite visualize what you're proposing for the oil cooler in a downdraft cooling setup.<snip>

 

What I have pictured is what I did on my Longez---except I think longez360 will end up with a more elegant solution.

 

I used downdraft cooling ONLY for the cylinders. Instead of cutting off the bottom NACA scoop, I kept it (I got lazy)--but I blocked it off and attached many round flanges (and 1 rectangular flange for the carb induction). In the end I had ram air directly to the carb and ram air directly to the oil cooler. I also had smaller tubes that directed cold air onto the mags and the vac pump.

[longez360]

See pic attached

 

The small triangular exit pictured allows air to bleed from the duct (mounted inside the berkut scoop) back to the cooler. Plan is to add a tunnel that 'trumpets' back to the face of the oil cooler. See http://rotaryeng.net/how-to-cool12.html, scroll down or use Edit Find on explorer to search for Kuchemann and Weber. The data is there to design a correct duct. There is no other way to do it efficiently.

 

There are many systems being designed and installed on Long EZs. I've seen some good ones and some bad ones where people have tried to reinvent the wheel. There's a lot of good 'facts and data' on intakes, diffusers, plenums, augmentation and outlets. I'm using all of it. The only problem with downdraft on Long EZ's is making a NACA submerged duct work properly (it's meant to be submerged), so a sloping cowl of 7 degrees or so is rqd.

[Rydogg]

Is anyone considering a Deltahawk diesel engine? ...seems to me that it could be a good fit for the EZ. Just a thought.

http://www.deltahawkengines.com

[Richard Riley]

Is anyone considering a Deltahawk diesel engine? ...seems to me that it could be a good fit for the EZ. Just a thought.

http://www.deltahawkengines.com

It would be a supurb engine for an EZ. The problem is that it isn't available yet - and it may never be. It's been just around the corner for years.

[dahwheel]

I am building a Long EZ - I have an IO-360A1A angle valve 200HP bendix fuel injected engine I could use (I also have access to a 0-320 160HP). Does anyone have any opinions on the angle valve IO-360??

 

I think it is a bit heavier than the parallel valve 0-360. Most of the 360 paralell valve engines I have seen are carbureted

 

John

Los Angeles, CA

[Richard Riley]

My experience has been with 180 HP parallel fuel injected 360's. They do exist, carburated ones can be converted with an either a Bendex or Airflow Performance servo. However, to my knowledge, all 200 hp angle valve 360's are injected.

 

I don't know of any Longs flying with the 200 hp enigine, but there are plenty of Cozy 4's that are. They ARE heavier, and even the 180 hp version is difficult to ballance on an EZ.

[Waiter]

If you ever find that you have "to much" power, simply retard the throttle. Unfortunantly, it doesn't work going the other way!!

 

Personally, I would choose the 360.

 

IMHO:

 

The additional weight (50lbs) isn't a major issue. when compared to the O-320, this is probably the only time in life that you will get 1hp per Lb. go for it.

 

From the start I built my LongEZ with the full intent of hanging a 320 on it (this was back in the days when this was considered a great sacralige to chang ANYTHING in the plans). I took great care to move as much weight forward as I could, i.e. Entended the nose (The original nose looks ugly anyway) brakes, ELT, Battery, etc.

 

I moved the battery forward about 18 inches from its plans location.

When I made the nose gear bulkheads (can't remember the F desigination that the ratchet assembly sits between these two bulkheads) I extended the forward portions to make a shelf for the battery. This 25 lb weight (the battery) is now resting on the nose gear bulhheads, but in front of the nose pivot point instead of behind it.

 

I also used a heavy battery. I strongly recommend the Odyssey 925 battery. This is a small, but heavy, recombinant battery that can be mounted in ANY position (even upside down) as there is no venting.

 

I will be adding another small battery, probably an Odyssey 310, in front of the existing battery, two batteries will provise seperate power to the two electronic ignition systems.

 

Waiter

[Richard Riley]

The aft weight is also a good excuse to install one of the electric nose lifts, like Jack Wilhelmsen's.

[niceez]

Waiter,

 

And when it's all done I want to know the weight of the airplane and it's performance. The retracts are less drag as long as the gear doors seal perfectly.

 

Wayne's 360 hauls ass for sure (been in it). I feel a LEZ with a IO-320 and DD cooling the rids 50% of the cooling drag will also be good with perhaps slightly better economy. Will check this future when a certain person shows up with his

IO-360 LEZ.

 

I think the real question is - is the LEZ your putting these heavier engines in built well. All to many are epoxy rich and weaker then they should be.

 

Dale

[Waiter]

My EZ weighed in at 950 on first flight. The MT prop added about 25 lbs. The retracts will add 40lbs (guess)

 

I should come in at about 1,025 when I'm ready to fly again.

 

If I had a 320 and a 360 sitting in the shop, I'd put the 360 on it.

 

If I could find a 360 with a conical mount and a reasonable price, I'd take my 320 off right now and put the 360 on.

 

Mine is very well built and would have no problem supporting the weight of a 360.

 

Waiter

[Wapati8]

wish I'd taken it to Jackpot when I had it in the USA to show what the 360 can do.

Did you fly your 360 LongEZ accross the Pacific?!!!

[harms]

Guys,

Anyone who has put on a 0360 or 0320 after removing an 0235 could you please give details on how much weight the plane gained, what that weight did to your weight/balance, useful load, and range. I would like to go faster (who wouldn't) but do like the idea of flying a safe airplane with known characteristics. Also at what speed would wing flutter be anticipated?