Phil Kriley Posted October 19, 2006 Posted October 19, 2006 I put a flox filet on the upper longerons, then laid up the 4-uni last night. Took longer than I expected - I went to bet at 12:30...yawn... But this morning I went down to have a look-see, and was able (for the first time) to knife-trim! That was a nice surprise! I removed the peel-ply and am satisfied with the results. Lower longerons tonight! Quote Phil Kriley Cozy #1460 Chapter 13 - nose Right wing done - working on right winglet.
Jon Matcho Posted October 19, 2006 Posted October 19, 2006 Phil, it's official -- you're making progress, so I gave you your own thread! The only thing to consider for next time is to leave the peel ply on until full cure. Some say to leave on until just before the point when you need that area for bonding. The reason is that when you rip the peel ply from cured glass, it roughs up the surface. Peeling from green glass doesn't do that, and you'll just have to sand a bit (which I do anyway). Not a major deal. It's an addictive feeling, isn't it? 12:30? Not too bad. Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV
Phil Kriley Posted October 19, 2006 Author Posted October 19, 2006 Phil, it's official -- you're making progress, so I gave you your own thread! Thanks! The only thing to consider for next time is to leave the peel ply on until full cure. Some say to leave on until just before the point when you need that area for bonding. The reason is that when you rip the peel ply from cured glass, it roughs up the surface. Peeling from green glass doesn't do that, and you'll just have to sand a bit (which I do anyway). Not a major deal. It's an addictive feeling, isn't it? 12:30? Not too bad. Can you knife trim through the peel-ply? It didn't occur to me to try. I'll have to give this some thought! Quote Phil Kriley Cozy #1460 Chapter 13 - nose Right wing done - working on right winglet.
Jon Matcho Posted October 19, 2006 Posted October 19, 2006 Can you knife trim through the peel-ply?Possibly, but I too have never thought to try. I'll have to give this some thought! Sounds like you might not have a Fein MultiMaster? Your far enough along to appreciate how painful it is to trim fiberglass, and the Fein makes the activity practically enjoyable. Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV
Phil Kriley Posted October 19, 2006 Author Posted October 19, 2006 Possibly, but I too have never thought to try. Sounds like you might not have a Fein MultiMaster? Your far enough along to appreciate how painful it is to trim fiberglass, and the Fein makes the activity practically enjoyable. If I buy the Fein tool, my budget won't allow for the next two chapter kits... Looks like a great tool, but $250 plus $70 for the flush blade is a LOT of money. I was thinking about dropping $95 for the Dritz electric scissors - I understand they can be used to trim the layup while still wet and probably in the chewing-gum stage as well. My Dremel with a cut-off wheel seems to do a decent job of trimming cured fiberglass - what's the advantage of buying the Fein tool? Is it REALLY worth that much money? I can ask Santa for one if it's REALLY worth the money. Quote Phil Kriley Cozy #1460 Chapter 13 - nose Right wing done - working on right winglet.
Jon Matcho Posted October 19, 2006 Posted October 19, 2006 If I buy the Fein tool, my budget won't allow for the next two chapter kits...Sorry to hear that, but that's unacceptable. Looks like a great tool, but $250 plus $70 for the flush blade is a LOT of money.Try hunting for one on eBay. You don't need the flush blade straight away; you just need a high speed steel (HSS) blade of some sort, which I think is included. I was thinking about dropping $95 for the Dritz electric scissors - I understand they can be used to trim the layup while still wet...They can be used to trim a wet layup, but check out the $20 Black & Decker version instead. Almost an exact clone. ...and probably in the chewing-gum stage as well.That I wouldn't try -- they're not that strong. My Dremel with a cut-off wheel seems to do a decent job of trimming cured fiberglassThat's how I did at least 33% of my bulkheads. Then a builder-friend brought over the Fein tool for me to trim and that was it. I picked one up during a Father's Day sale at Amazon. ...what's the advantage of buying the Fein tool?Here goes: No spinning wheel of death Reduced friction burning of foam/epoxy Very little dust Cuts through layers of cured glass like butter Can somewhat delay purchase of a bandsaw Build faster; get more done Is it REALLY worth that much money?I vote an emphatic 'yes'! I can ask Santa for one if it's REALLY worth the money. Ask the Great Pumpkin instead! Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV
Phil Kriley Posted October 19, 2006 Author Posted October 19, 2006 If'n you twist my arm any harder it's gonna break! Quote Phil Kriley Cozy #1460 Chapter 13 - nose Right wing done - working on right winglet.
Phil Kriley Posted October 20, 2006 Author Posted October 20, 2006 Trimmed the glass all around the sides and checked the measurements - all looked good so I made the cuts in the lower longerons and nailed them into place. Next is to flox them into place and complete the sides. This is fun! Quote Phil Kriley Cozy #1460 Chapter 13 - nose Right wing done - working on right winglet.
Jon Matcho Posted October 20, 2006 Posted October 20, 2006 Sounds good... keep it up. Go go go. Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV
Phil Kriley Posted November 6, 2006 Author Posted November 6, 2006 Removed the sides from the jigs using a metal yardstick with one end sharpened like a chisel. Worked great! Almost no damage to the foam. Cut a slot in my table and assembled the sides, F22, IP. Seatback and dummy firewall. Dummy firewall had to be adjustd - the holes for the lower longeron wer off by 1/4 inch low and outside the actual position. good new is both sides were identical. I should be able to flox it together soon! Quote Phil Kriley Cozy #1460 Chapter 13 - nose Right wing done - working on right winglet.
Jon Matcho Posted November 6, 2006 Posted November 6, 2006 Removed the sides from the jigs using a metal yardstick with one end sharpened like a chisel. Worked great! Almost no damage to the foam.Nice idea! When I did mine, I used the shiny side of 1/4" hardboard. I used as many drwall screws as I could fit underneath with my hands, and VERY small dabs of 5-min epoxy for other areas. In most places, the 5-min popped off with only the slightest foam damage. In some cases the epoxy came off clean, but off course I still need to perform minor surgery to get the cured 5-min off the foam before I glass the outsides. Sounds good, keep going... Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV
Phil Kriley Posted November 13, 2006 Author Posted November 13, 2006 I did the assembly inverted, on top of my workbench. My workbench is built with a desk under it, so I could not lower it. I floxed the seatback, IP and F22 to the sides this weekend. Everything was 0.0 or 90.0 when I left it...hope it stayed that way! I used a combination of ratchet-straps, bar clamps, and wood braces to hold everything still. If I had this to do over, I would NOT cut any notches in the seatback per the plans/drawings. I did the upper cutouts per the plans/drawings and it took a goodly bit of flox to fill the gaps. I did the lower cutouts using a carpenters' contour duplicating tool, and it turned out MUCH better. Quote Phil Kriley Cozy #1460 Chapter 13 - nose Right wing done - working on right winglet.
Jon Matcho Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 If I had this to do over, I would NOT cut any notches in the seatback per the plans/drawings. I did the upper cutouts per the plans/drawings and it took a goodly bit of flox to fill the gaps. I did the lower cutouts using a carpenters' contour duplicating tool, and it turned out MUCH better. Same experience here, although not so bad with the flox. It definitely would be an improvement to use a contour tool for the corners. BTW, at first I thought you were talking about the center notch in the seatback, which is sized for the manual speed brake lever. However, most are putting in a linear actuator, which I believe changes that design as well. Meaning... you may need to fill that with foam and glass at some point, but no biggie. Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV
Phil Kriley Posted November 13, 2006 Author Posted November 13, 2006 Same experience here, although not so bad with the flox. It definitely would be an improvement to use a contour tool for the corners. BTW, at first I thought you were talking about the center notch in the seatback, which is sized for the manual speed brake lever. However, most are putting in a linear actuator, which I believe changes that design as well. Meaning... you may need to fill that with foam and glass at some point, but no biggie. I'm going to use the manual speed brake lever. I had a Johnson bar flap handle in my Musketeer, and MUCH prefer it over the Cessna's electric flaps. I do plan to use the electric nose-gear, though. Quote Phil Kriley Cozy #1460 Chapter 13 - nose Right wing done - working on right winglet.
Spodman Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 I had a Johnson bar flap handle in my Musketeer, and MUCH prefer it over the Cessna's electric flaps. Will your Musketeer retract the flaps if you go over 90K & thwack your leg? Quote Mark Spedding - SpodmanDarraweit Guim - AustraliaCozy IV #1331 - Chapter 09www.mykitlog.com/Spodmanwww.sites.google.com/site/thespodplane/the-spodplane
Phil Kriley Posted November 13, 2006 Author Posted November 13, 2006 Will your Musketeer retract the flaps if you go over 90K & thwack your leg? I don't know, I always flew within the POH limits. Is there a design problem with the manual speed brake that I need to know about? Quote Phil Kriley Cozy #1460 Chapter 13 - nose Right wing done - working on right winglet.
Marc Zeitlin Posted November 13, 2006 Posted November 13, 2006 Is there a design problem with the manual speed brake that I need to know about? Other than it being a complete kludge that'll break your passenger's leg if given a chance, costs more than the electric version (especially if you just buy the actuator yourself rather than get one from a canardian vendor), is much harder to install, is less reliable, weighs more, and takes up a lot of useful room in the center console? Nope. It's great :-). Mine broke twice on me (cable came out of the nicopress, which isn't used per design specs in the manual system), and scared the crap out of me once at 10K ft over NYC when one of the two return springs broke on me. No problems since installing the electric system, especially with the throttle interlock as described on my web pages. Quote Marc J. Zeitlin Burnside Aerospace marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu www.cozybuilders.org copyright © 2024
Wayne Hicks Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 Also take into account that most of the manual mechanism parts were from Brock. You'd have to get one from Spruce (if they have one) or try and make the parts yourself. Choose the electric actuator and make all the brackets yourself. You'll thank us in about 6 years. Quote Wayne Hicks Cozy IV Plans #678 http://www.ez.org/pages/waynehicks
Phil Kriley Posted November 14, 2006 Author Posted November 14, 2006 OK - electric it is. Thanks for the heads-up! Quote Phil Kriley Cozy #1460 Chapter 13 - nose Right wing done - working on right winglet.
Wayne Hicks Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 The manual lever intrudes on the passenger's seat space. I remember well Nat slapping me on my leg so he could access the lever and deploy the brake for landing. The obvious concerns about going electric are: (1) Brake staying deployed on takeoff (because you FORGOT to raise it), or being deployed on a go-around. (2) Motor breaking and not being able to retract the brake. #1 gets taken care of with the retract circuit interlock that Zeitlin mentions. Very cool and guilt-free. On #2, I have never heard of a unit failing on its own that wasn't the result of some electrical failure upstream. Ken Miller and Wayne Lanza -- both sell the "kits" -- have not had a unit fail either. The mechanical mechanism has a number of failure modes, mostly benign, except for it scaring the crap out of you. Quote Wayne Hicks Cozy IV Plans #678 http://www.ez.org/pages/waynehicks
Jon Matcho Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 No problems since installing the electric system, especially with the throttle interlock as described on my web pages.Okay Marc, I give up. Where'd you hide these web pages? I can't find anything beyond your pages covering the manual system. Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV
Marc Zeitlin Posted November 14, 2006 Posted November 14, 2006 Okay Marc, I give up. Where'd you hide these web pages? I can't find anything beyond your pages covering the manual system.See: http://www.cozybuilders.org/cad_files/ under "Chapter 22" Quote Marc J. Zeitlin Burnside Aerospace marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu www.cozybuilders.org copyright © 2024
Phil Kriley Posted November 20, 2006 Author Posted November 20, 2006 I floxed in the aft gear bulkhead, but must have clamped it too tight because it has a slight bow to it. With a straight-edge laid across it, there is a 1/8" gap at the middle, or a 1/16" gap at each end if you put the straight-edge on the other side. I'm trying to decide if I need to cut it out and re-install it. Quote Phil Kriley Cozy #1460 Chapter 13 - nose Right wing done - working on right winglet.
Jon Matcho Posted November 20, 2006 Posted November 20, 2006 Phil, if you haven't mounted your permanent firewall you can just sand the holes for the longerons in the temporary firewall to widen just a bit, allowing your fuselage to spread so the aft LG bulkhead is not bowed. When you make your permanent firewall, just use the "real world" positions for the longeron holes from you temporary firewall. (looks like I should have bit my tongue before replying on the other forum...) Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV
Phil Kriley Posted November 21, 2006 Author Posted November 21, 2006 I removed the temp firewall, and the fuse sides did not move - the aft LG bulkhead maintained it's "bow". I guess flox is REALLY strong stuff! So I decided to continue with the construction and floxed the forward lower LG bulkhead and jigged it to be square to the temp firewall and exactly vertical. When this cures I'll drill the holes and remove the spacers. F28 also got installed last night - I used blocks hot-glued to the table to position it properly. Next step for me will be to turn the project right-side up and install the upper forward LG bulkhead. I have not taped any of the LG bulkheads as the plans did not call for any. Looks like a lot of reinforcing of this area will be done in Chapter 9. Quote Phil Kriley Cozy #1460 Chapter 13 - nose Right wing done - working on right winglet.
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