Waiter Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 Excellent; I looked at this gear when I started my search for a retract system. This was right after Steve passed away, so I was SOL. The Drybread gear wasn't available so I bought the Infinity. Waiter Quote F16 performance on a Piper Cub budget LongEZ, 160hp, MT CS Prop, Downdraft cooling, Full retract visit: www.iflyez.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted August 9, 2007 Share Posted August 9, 2007 The Drybread gear wasn't available so I bought the Infinity. Waiter Funny how things work out for the best. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpellicciotti Posted August 24, 2007 Author Share Posted August 24, 2007 I put some video of the Drybread gear on my airplane up on You Tube. I was in the process of cycling the gear for the annual condition inspection. Quote Rick Pellicciotti Belle Aire Aviation, Inc. http://www.belleaireaviation.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 Nice and smooth. Is that electric or hydraulic actuation? Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpellicciotti Posted August 24, 2007 Author Share Posted August 24, 2007 Nice and smooth. Is that electric or hydraulic actuation? Its electro-hydraulic. That whirring noise you hear is the electrically driven hydraulic pump. The pump drives a single, large, hydraulic ram that is mounted longitudinally in the bottom of the airplane (underneath the back seater), where the NACA scoop would normally be. The ram pulls on two cables that run through pulleys up to the top of the gear legs. The top of the gear legs are pulled down and the wheels go up. Quote Rick Pellicciotti Belle Aire Aviation, Inc. http://www.belleaireaviation.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 In terms of retractable landing gear mechanisms, it appears to be quite a solid system. It does make me wonder about its failure modes. What are they? What would cause this gear design to fail from fully extending? Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpaton Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 In terms of retractable landing gear mechanisms, it appears to be quite a solid system. It does make me wonder about its failure modes. What are they? What would cause this gear design to fail from fully extending? After finishing a week of design FMEAs at work, that sent shivers down my spine , but they're good questions to ask. From the look of it, the system seems pretty robust. It's kind of like the Velocity system, but simpler and lighter. Occam's Razor say it should be better...is it really? Quote This is not a sig. This is a duck. Quack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 After finishing a week of design FMEAs at work, that sent shivers down my spine ...Sorry! It is a good "looking" design, yes, but I'm sure its FMEA results are not as good as my fixed gear. Still, I'm interested in the design!!! Quote Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lifessamsara Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 I'd be interested to see your FMEA (we usually use FMECA ourselves as the criticality of a failure mode is what really matters). Feel free to send me any notes, summary thoughts etc that you have. Does anyone know what lay-up schedule is used in this gear at all? This would be fundamental to understanding how it manages after a number of landing cycles and a hard landing scenario. Cheers, Bruce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Riley Posted August 31, 2007 Share Posted August 31, 2007 Its electro-hydraulic. That whirring noise you hear is the electrically driven hydraulic pump. The pump drives a single, large, hydraulic ram that is mounted longitudinally in the bottom of the airplane (underneath the back seater), where the NACA scoop would normally be. The ram pulls on two cables that run through pulleys up to the top of the gear legs. The top of the gear legs are pulled down and the wheels go up. Rick, the vehicle I'm working on now for the day job is all-electric. All the things you'd normally see hydraulic cyls doing, there's an electric actuator for. Including the landing gear. The failure rate of the electric actuators is actually less than the failure rate of the hydraulic pumps I'm familiar with. Just something to consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpellicciotti Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 In terms of retractable landing gear mechanisms, it appears to be quite a solid system. It does make me wonder about its failure modes. What are they? What would cause this gear design to fail from fully extending? John, I am a long time getting to answering your question. Have a lot goin on right now... It is hard for me to think of a failure mode that would keep the gear from extending. I am sure someone else will. The gear is hinged at the fuselage (same exact hardware as the fixed gear). The only thing holding the gear up is the hydraulic pressure in the ram. The emergency extension of the gear is as simple as pulling the pump circuit breaker and then opening a valve that is interconnected between the high and low pressure sides of the system. The gear simply gravity falls down and the link goes over center. I have actually done this on the ground and in flight. It works very well. If the system should lose pressure due to a leak, the gear will come down on its own. The pilot will be tipped to this condition by the pump cyclying on and off to maintain pressure. Let's see, what if one of the cables break? The cables are in tension, holding the gear up. A broken cable will result in that gear leg partially extending. Lowering the gear with the power or manually would result in both gear extending fully. Quote Rick Pellicciotti Belle Aire Aviation, Inc. http://www.belleaireaviation.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpellicciotti Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 I'd be interested to see your FMEA (we usually use FMECA ourselves as the criticality of a failure mode is what really matters). Feel free to send me any notes, summary thoughts etc that you have. Does anyone know what lay-up schedule is used in this gear at all? This would be fundamental to understanding how it manages after a number of landing cycles and a hard landing scenario. Cheers, Bruce. Bruce, there is a layup schedule for the gear legs. I will try to get it posted one of these days. The gear was designed after the Velocity system with Scott Swing involved in the design of it. I don't know much about FMEA or root cause analysis. I do know this airplane has about 800 landings on it and a few more gear cycles than that. The bushings in the landing gear attach points, the bolts that mount the gear to the attachments and the hydraulic cylinder have been inspected and maintained regularly. So far, no problems. Quote Rick Pellicciotti Belle Aire Aviation, Inc. http://www.belleaireaviation.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpellicciotti Posted September 10, 2007 Author Share Posted September 10, 2007 Rick, the vehicle I'm working on now for the day job is all-electric. All the things you'd normally see hydraulic cyls doing, there's an electric actuator for. Including the landing gear. The failure rate of the electric actuators is actually less than the failure rate of the hydraulic pumps I'm familiar with. Just something to consider. Hi Richard. Would like to hear more about your project some time. I know that electric actuators have come a long way. The Turbine Legend had electric gear and the 787 is almost and all-electric airplane. The wing folding on the Terrafugia is also using electric actuators, I think. I can see where an electric linear actuator could take the place of the hydraulic ram in this system very easily. It would eliminate the pump and the hydraulic plumbing. I am wondering how to do the emergency gear extension though? I would hate to think that we would have to have some kind of shaft driven, ratcheting mechanism like we use for our electric nose gears. It would be quite complicated to work out. Regards, Quote Rick Pellicciotti Belle Aire Aviation, Inc. http://www.belleaireaviation.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Riley Posted September 11, 2007 Share Posted September 11, 2007 Google A160. I agree, throwing open a valve is a thing of beauty. How about attaching the electric actuator to the gear via 3/16" Spectra cord? Emergency extension is pulling out your knife and cutting the cord. Gear falls down, goes over center. An idle thought, nothing more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff122670 Posted September 22, 2007 Share Posted September 22, 2007 i owned a velocity 173/RG. i really like the RG system of velo and i think it is a very safe and reliable item, however, the one thing i always hated was the hydraulic system that operatees the raising and lowering of the gear. it seems there was ALWAYS a leak!! so now that i am in the market for a Long-ez and want to use the drybread gear system, i think a linear actuator (electric) would be best and in the end, might be lighter. however, the failure mode concerns me. since the acuator just pulls a cable, why couldnt you use a "winch" type system where the cable is pulled and rolled up. then if you have a failure and cant lower the winch, you can just release the ratchet and let it fall. if i remember from the Velo, the actual cable "pull" was only about 24-36 inches, so we arent talking about a LOT of cable being rolled up.... thoughts?? also, RICK, are you planning to market this retract system or do you plan to publish your findings, etc for folks who would like to retro-fit a long-ez??? thanks for all of the help!! Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyslongez Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 Some of you may now know that I have acquired a Berkut project. I have been thinking for some time about using an MMac actuator for the gear. Question! Why does it have to be a cable? the other problem that I can see, (for the Berkut anyway) is the outer gear door. Once we get rid of the stock pump, the actuator for the outer gear door goes by by as well. Or am I crazy? How do I close the outer gear door? and no I'm not going to leave it off. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Riley Posted September 30, 2007 Share Posted September 30, 2007 You could leave off the outer doors - Shirl did - but the outer doors actually function as a gear uplock. Without them, pulling G's the hydraulic actuators on the main gear would bend. Lots of leverage. You could use little electric actuators on the outer doors. If you're thinking of using electric actuators as direct replacements for the hyd cyls, I don't think you have a means of emergency extension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted October 1, 2007 Share Posted October 1, 2007 I am looking to purchase Steve Drybread's retractable gear kits for the Long-EZ. Someone has a kit in their shop out there somewhere. i got a set of jd's, no pump Quote Steve M. Parkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qmain Posted October 8, 2007 Share Posted October 8, 2007 I am curious how the Drybread Gear from the Velo fits on a Long-Ez. Surely the "horns"are too long and are designed for the width of the Velo? There is a video clip on the net about the Drybread Gear actuation on a Long-Ez so this means it has been done. Some link to the construction pics will be appreciated. Jannie Cozy MKIV O-540 South Africa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpellicciotti Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 I am curious how the Drybread Gear from the Velo fits on a Long-Ez. Surely the "horns"are too long and are designed for the width of the Velo? There is a video clip on the net about the Drybread Gear actuation on a Long-Ez so this means it has been done. Some link to the construction pics will be appreciated. Jannie Cozy MKIV O-540 South Africa Actually the "horns" on top of the gear legs are about the same for both aircraft. What is different is the "over center mechanism". The length of it is quite a bit longer for the Velocity. Quote Rick Pellicciotti Belle Aire Aviation, Inc. http://www.belleaireaviation.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cozy Girrrl Posted October 11, 2007 Share Posted October 11, 2007 Out of curiousity I'd love to look at a set of Drybread or Velocity gear if anybody has a set laying around. Regards, Chrissi Quote CG Products www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B Turbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpellicciotti Posted October 11, 2007 Author Share Posted October 11, 2007 Gary Earnest took a lot of pictures of my airplane while it was apart. Maybe he will share. If you want to see some video of the gear working, it is here: There are several different views. I will have the airplane together in the next week or so. After the Memphis 100 Air Race perhaps I can fly the airplane up to your place. Its not that far. Quote Rick Pellicciotti Belle Aire Aviation, Inc. http://www.belleaireaviation.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarksEZ Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Chrissi I am anew member of the canard world, who recently purchased a "take over" Long EZ project from the widow of the original builder. The EZ is equiped with a patially installed Drybread system, if you are still inerested in looking at one let me know, I am located in central MA in proximity to several airports (BED, FIT, 6B6, 3B3) Regards, Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cozy Girrrl Posted January 8, 2008 Share Posted January 8, 2008 Chrissi I am anew member of the canard world, who recently purchased a "take over" Long EZ project from the widow of the original builder. The EZ is equiped with a patially installed Drybread system, if you are still inerested in looking at one let me know, I am located in central MA in proximity to several airports (BED, FIT, 6B6, 3B3) Regards, Mark Dear Mark,Yes we are curious, I'll contact you off list. Regards, Chrissi Quote CG Products www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B Turbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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