tonyslongez Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 here are a couple more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyslongez Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 This is a little more water jet friendly to cut out. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witch Dr. Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Tony I will kill 3 chickens and read the blood stains to see if this design will work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyslongez Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Awsome I'll say three hale marry's and anodize all my parts in holy water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witch Dr. Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Good news! The chickens said their death was not necessary and looked at the plans themselves and were impressed with you concept:cool: They also said to watch out for shrunken heads on the runway:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyslongez Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 what about a dead head sticker on a cadillac? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witch Dr. Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 It's all the same in the end....no matter which end it is:p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP3_C Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 G'day Tony. Looks like a great idea coming along well. Have you considered the position of the wheel assembly when putting the Long into the "grazing" position? It just seems like the section directly under the nose leg might come in contact with the ground before the wheel gets to the appropraite position. For all I know you might not intend on grazing at all or more to do with proof of concept and not specific measurements yet. There is a .DXF graphic at Infinity's website of a steerable nose gear they have in the works as well. Myself when I get around to building would also like to fit a steerable nose gear as well. Jamie Quote "An upsidedown Australian that wants to build an aircraft that flys backwards" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyslongez Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Jamie Hows it going mate? I have a question for you. When you look at these drawings which way do you think the wheel is pointing initially? The reason I ask is, My buddy I talked to today is a composites engineer at General Atomics. He loved the idea but he thought the wheel was facing forward then I explaned that the wheel was in trail and the black tube is the strut, then he really went crazy . I was pleased to here that he liked the initiall design now I just have to work out the kenematics and the rake and trail. So to answere your question, yes it may. That is why I'm going to use the foot that is supplied with the Jack Whilhemson nose lift, that should aleviate that problem. In reality I'll have to play with it for a bit to get all the bugs worked out. I have a few more drawings I'm working on that will be in scale, with the proper rake and trail for the caster and foot involved. Time to warm up the milling machine. I'm glad your thinking about this thing. I'll look real close at it to see where it goes and what kind of clearance I'll need. Tony ("Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from medicore minds" Albert Einstein) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyslongez Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Here are a couple more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGlos Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Two things. The swing arm shock bracket brings the wheel further up into the fuselage body. Perhaps so much so that it will interfere with the bottoms of lower instruments in the panel. Second, How are the pedals going to work with such an arrangement? Existing pedals deploy the rudders for the first 3/4 of the stroke. On the last 1/4th of travel the brakes are applied for steering. These may not be the exact ratios but you get the idea. As we know on conventional dual purpose pedals, the rudders are applied by the legs and the brakes by the toes. I would never be able to stop or even slow down my Long using anything other than leg strength. I even have the heavy duty brakes. The steering concepts are outstanding and the drawings even better but what is missing here is what the existing system "feels" like when stopping and steering. Your system may even work if you reversed the pedal convention and stop with the legs and steer with the toes. From the very beginning these planes had/have more trouble braking than steering. And then if you did get acceptable braking the friction gets the area so hot the gear legs would soften and bend. So as you work on your idea, it is not a bad idea to think also about the associated components and the experience us old farts with old planes have to offer. I could easily see a completed, workable steering system combined with a toe brake rudder pedal system being unable to stop on the first landing or at the very least raise, the pucker factor up a magnitude or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyslongez Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Rgold The swing arm shock bracket brings the wheel further up into the fuselage body. Perhaps so much so that it will interfere with the bottoms of lower instruments in the panel.Interesting thought didn't see that one coming that's great:) . I measured the horizontal distance between the wheel center and the strut trunion. I forget what the part number it is but it's the block of aluminum that is floxed onto the strut and the caster shaft slides into it. Anyway, that measured 4 1/4 repectively that's pretty short. I can't measure from the top of the wheel well cover to the bottom of the instrument panel because the airplane is upside down on the hobby horse BUT! it looks like we may have plenty of room but I won't know the actual measurement until I flip the thing back over. I'm trying to make this thing as simple to retrofit as possible that's not say of course that there won't be some leval of modification to the wheel well i.e. extend it upward toward the panel slightly. Second, How are the pedals going to work with such an arrangement? Well my idea here is to keep the pedals out of the equation. I don't know how familiar you are to commercial aircraft but our 737's have a small tiller wheel on the side of the cockpit that steers the nosegear this is a wonderful thing IMO and would be a great way to steer our airplanes. I'm sure others have there ideas about that, but for ease of setup and overall effectiveness the tiller wheel is really the way to go. You can set the steering up to use your pedals as I see it, without to much modification but for me I'm going with the tiller wheel. Your system may even work if you reversed the pedal convention and stop with the legs and steer with the toes. Great idea, love it. I'll draw it up tonight what that might look like. So as you work on your idea, it is not a bad idea to think also about the associated components and the experience us old farts with old planes have to offer. Good point. I appreciate the fact that you are willing to present your concerns and experiences in a way that is non offensive and certainly condusive to saving my ass;) Thank you could easily see a completed, workable steering system combined with a toe brake rudder pedal system being unable to stop on the first landing or at the very least raise, the pucker factor up a magnitude or two. I agree I'll do my best to engineer the pucker factor down to the lowest common denominator (keep um coming) Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGlos Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 You're welcome. If you were near the Chicago area, my points could be easily resolved by letting you taxi my plane around. That offer extends to DPaton as well. I havn't forgotten your ride Dave. I will be in touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyslongez Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Dave is great:) Where are you Dave? how was your trip to Bermuda or Istanbul or maybe it was Argentina? If I sit here long enough I'll have you going all over the place. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Hicks Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 "small tiller wheel on the side of the cockpit" Just my opinion, but... (1) On takeoffs and landings, I always have one hand on the throttle and one hand on the stick. I would feel too uneasy trying to manipulate a tiller wheel too. For me, I would not be using the NWS unless it were interactive with the rudder pedals. (2) I might have missed it, but how is the tiller wheel connected to the NGS? Via cables? I know in the Long EZ, there's not much real estate for anything under the consoles forward of the control stick or the throttle quadrant. The right side of the fuselage forward of the IP is taken up with the canard tie-rods, trim system, and wire bundles. Quote Wayne Hicks Cozy IV Plans #678 http://www.ez.org/pages/waynehicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satch Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Anyone worried about the length of the moment arm between the downtube (strut) and the force vector extending up from wheel shaft? Unless something's beefier than it appears, I wonder ICO one good "proink" on the nose wheel if that bracket is going to shear or if the strut is going to fail. Either way, it'd be bad. I see the dampner spring in there, but would think that'd be an interesting balancing act between providing enough force absorption and length of the bracket / spring assembly iteself. Or not ? ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyslongez Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Anyone worried about the length of the moment arm between the downtube (strut) and the force vector extending up from wheel shaft? Unless something's beefier than it appears, I wonder ICO one good "proink" on the nose wheel if that bracket is going to shear or if the strut is going to fail. Either way, it'd be bad. I see the dampner spring in there, but would think that'd be an interesting balancing act between providing enough force absorption and length of the bracket / spring assembly iteself. Or not ? ... Satch. Yes the moment arm issue is there. Remember thought, the initial drawings are not scale they are close but not scale I'm trying to keep the dimensions and moments as close to the existing wheel as possible and certainly try to keep the whole thing as light as possible. Try to think of it as not really allowing you to bach up your landings anymore than you can now. If you bang the existing stock Long Ez nose wheel on the ground hard enough it is going to fail as well. Keep in mind that your still going to use the same techniques for landing as you always have, holding the nose off until the last minute and landing on the mains first not the nose gear. I have alot of the kniematics worked out in the next set of drawings and the scale will be much beeter than what you see here. this is just me getting the ideas on paper as fast as possible then I'll work out the details. " small tiller wheel on the side of the cockpit" Just my opinion, but... (1) On takeoffs and landings, I always have one hand on the throttle and one hand on the stick. I would feel too uneasy trying to manipulate a tiller wheel too. For me, I would not be using the NWS unless it were interactive with the rudder pedals. (2) I might have missed it, but how is the tiller wheel connected to the NGS? Via cables? I know in the Long EZ, there's not much real estate for anything under the consoles forward of the control stick or the throttle quadrant. The right side of the fuselage forward of the IP is taken up with the canard tie-rods, trim system, and wire bundles. Wayne No doubt it will take some getting used too. you can put that wheel just about anywhere you want to, as close or as far away form your throttles as you need. The nosegear is steered with a push pull cable. I modeled that from the 737's. Don't forget you will still have differential breaking nothing has changed in that department and the wheel will caster a certain degree during your breaking. I'll draw the rudder assembly what it might look like if you hooked it up to your pedals. As far as the mess behind the IP. Well I'm installing all my gear first and then I'll bundle things up around that. I don't know what you would do for an older bird with steem gauges that's a tough one. Remeber you guys these right now are just conceptial in a week or two I'll have a final design with all the necessary engineering taken care of. Have Faith. It's gonna be great. The shock is on the way that I want to use so I'll have the dimensions for that. I would like to have a working prototype by the end of next month. the T.V. show is geting crazy so time might be an issue. Thanks for the response. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Witch Dr. Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 Wow Tony! You really got busy last night. I really like the new setup. I thought the design was headed that way after our conversation. I dont remember which shock you said you were gonna use but if it doesnt have enough spring force to hold the plane up you can always relocate it highier above the caster assemblies horizontal pivot to give more leverage. Anyway keep going I like the direction this is going and the chickens agree. :thumbsup:They told me to tell you "when you sit at the computer to place your feet in a bucket full of live slugs". They said it will give you inspiration.....or indigestion....I'm not sure they were getting drunk and rowdy and were slurring their clucks:confused: Witch Dr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AP3_C Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 G'day Tony, I assumed the drawing was as you said, leg leading, link trailing. Design is looking good, keep up good work. Jamie Quote "An upsidedown Australian that wants to build an aircraft that flys backwards" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RGlos Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 [i see the dampner spring in there, but would think that'd be an interesting balancing act between providing enough force absorption and length of the bracket / spring assembly iteself. Or not ? ... Not to worry on this. There is a damping spring on all three of the lift mechanisms, stock, Wright and Wilhelms. The spring on the fork would be redundant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyslongez Posted March 14, 2006 Share Posted March 14, 2006 There is a damping spring on all three of the lift mechanisms, stock, Wright and Wilhelms I forgot about that. My whilhemson does have a spring in it. How cool is that? That will make my life simpler. So this design is going to get alot easier to draw and make in the end, Here comes the next set of drawigns. Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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