tonyslongez Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 jon I just posted before you. the Cad program is Autocad 2000 did you get the drawings I e-mailed you? Did you get to view the 3D of my Retracts for the Long Ez? Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 Yes, I got the files, but I don't have AutoCAD. Can you generate DWF files for each so I can test printing using the AutoCAD DWF Viewer on my HP E-size plotter? Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale_R Posted January 5, 2006 Share Posted January 5, 2006 ... Yes, this would be an interesting exercise, but the proof of this pudding would be whether the drawings' dimensions checked out, or not. You'd have to verify the first set printed, but then after that you could just check the calibration sheet (large perfect circle within a square or rectangle, with all dimensions?). ... Umm, okay ... what's wrong with having a pair of standard machinist's scales (~18") on the bottom and side of each drawing? Then each user can verify that the drawings reproduced correctly (or know exactly how much they are off)? Dale R. COZY MkIV #1254 Mesa, AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted January 5, 2006 Author Share Posted January 5, 2006 Umm, okay ... what's wrong with having a pair of standard machinist's scales (~18") on the bottom and side of each drawing?Nothing at all, if that's a standard of sorts. I suggested a square and a circle so that you could verify length and width (using the square), and aspect ratio (by verifying the constant radius of the circle). Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyslongez Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I don't know why everyone is so hellbent on printing the templates to "full scale" what difference does it make if they are even in scale? As long as you have the proper dimensions of each longeron or bulkhead. look at what I have drawn allready you can make those bulkheads without even printing them out the only thing missing is the lower radius dimension which isn't critical all other dimensions are, and supplied, and I give the modified template next to it which is rounded more at the bottom so make your fuse bottom as round as you like or your leg cut outs. Plus all other critical templates come aftermarket, Roncz for the canard, and Aerocanard for the wings and wing jigs. Just use the drawing to clarify the written words in the plans set nothing more. I'm not trying to copy Burt or preserve his work that's his problem. He's abandon the canard community as I see it. he's layed the ground work Great! now we have a chance to capatalize. The only real critical template is the Firewall everything else has dimensions. This is what Burt should have done to begin with. Obviously! the reason he didn't was to make people buy the templates well that didn't work. I'll put the dimension in like I have allready and who cares how it is printed. I'm growing tired now. Jon decide on something and lets get it done or I'll decide and do it the way I want to. (I mean no disrespect ) with or without dimensions? 2D or 3D? I just don't want to waste my time. Do me a favore go get CadLt or something equall to that at Frys or Circuit city you'll be glad you did. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Evansic Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I don't know why everyone is so hellbent on printing the templates to "full scale" what difference does it make if they are even in scale?Many people glue the full-size drawings to masonite and cut them out to use as templates for cutting with a router. -- Len -- Len Evansic, Cozy Mk. IV Plans #1283 Do you need a Flightline Chair, or other embroidered aviation accessory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted January 6, 2006 Author Share Posted January 6, 2006 Tony, let me try to get closer to a common denominator. I'm not trying to complicate anything. I also gather that AutoCAD 2000 cannot create DWF files, so that option is out (for now at least). If you can do the following... Provide source DWG files to me whenever you have something you feel is worth publishing Create a couple full-size PDFs (just to humor me) Then I will... Review the source DWG files Test-print the source DWG files (just to humor myself) with a couple DWG reader/printers Consider purchasing a fully functional version of AutoCAD (LT doesn't do 3D) I agree with what you are saying, and would only point out: It's more builder-friendly to be able to cut out a paper template, pin it down, then cut foam Not everyone that is looking to build a Long-EZ has access to CAD software with or without dimensions? 2D or 3D?WITH dimensions please. I'll review the DWGs you sent previously, using the tools I have, and make a few comments regarding 2D vs. 3D. Maybe we want both, but in the end, it sounds like we need to find out the path of least resistance. Bear with me on this, as I need to come up to speed and don't mean to cause any frustration. Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted January 6, 2006 Author Share Posted January 6, 2006 Many people glue the full-size drawings to masonite and cut them out to use as templates for cutting with a router.I still don't get why that's worthwhile. You still have to cut the masonite by hand! Unless you're going to make more than 1 plane, I just don't get it. However, this IS necessary for hot wiring the wings... Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpaton Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Off the top of my head, it would be to be able to use a router to trim the parts to final shape. That's my plan anyway. And yes, I know all about router bits and fiberglass -dave This is not a sig. This is a duck. Quack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyslongez Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Everybody! if you don't have CAD try this, it's free http://www.bentley.com/en-US/Products/Bentley+View/Overview.htm?skid=1%2D463SQ9&gclid=CNWZqt6dtYICFRMbSAodL3-RCw Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H.Zwakenberg Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I still don't get why that's worthwhile. You still have to cut the masonite by hand! Unless you're going to make more than 1 plane, I just don't get it. However, this IS necessary for hot wiring the wings... I think the only really valid reason for wanting to have this precision is when you intend to have stuff cut out by some CNC process. bye Hans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpaton Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 I think the only really valid reason for wanting to have this precision is when you intend to have stuff cut out by some CNC process.Hans- I guess some of us just like the idea of having very precise tooling to build our planes from. I won't be doing any CNC work on mine, except maybe having some brackets fabricated, but when I cut the foam for the bulkheads, I'd really like to have them as accurate as possible. It's the engineer in me I suppose. If it can be that accurate, why make it any less so? -dave This is not a sig. This is a duck. Quack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyslongez Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Remember though, this is a hand built airplane. I don't recall Burt mentioning anything about routers to cut out bulkheads. The point is, if you have the proper dimensions you won't need a template. there are thousands of things in the world that are built very well and not once was a full scale template used. lets move on! I'm telling you, the only fullsize template that you need as I see it, is the firewall. If I'm wrong I'll draw another fullsize template of some other bulkhead but I can't see where you would need it. If you can measure with a ruler you can cut out every one of these bulkheads just as accurate as you could if you had a full size template can we all agree on this??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpaton Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Tony- I'll give you the inherant imprecision of a handbuilt plane, but I'm still using my router ;-) It fits with the way I've always worked, and it's a process I'm both familiar with and comfortable with, so it'll be my choice. No one else needs to worry about it, and everyone but me should follow Tony's and Hans' advice about precision. -dave This is not a sig. This is a duck. Quack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyslongez Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Dave you are awsome. O.k. So I've been thinking (here comes the smoke) I'm finishing up some more of these drawings/templates. There are alot of little things that are on these templates in the corners B-B , C-C and so on. alot of which had the drawing been a little clearer, you wouldn't have needed them. Here is the RUB. This stuff was printed for the guy who didn't even know what a rudder is. See, I'm drawing these the way I understand things now, as a "builder", maybe that is where the confusion is. I'm going to finish these in the eyes of the builder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale_R Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Everybody! if you don't have CAD try this, it's free http://www.bentley.com/en-US/Products/Bentley+View/Overview.htm?skid=1%2D463SQ9&gclid=CNWZqt6dtYICFRMbSAodL3-RCw Tony TANSTAAFL alert! They want both a physical address (won't take a P.O. box) and an email address. This is going to be one more source of spam, so use an email account that you don't care about. Dale R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpaton Posted January 6, 2006 Share Posted January 6, 2006 Dave you are awsome.Shhh, don't let my boss hear that. I'm already putting in extra hours. If he thinks I'm awesome, he might ask for more Here is the RUB. This stuff was printed for the guy who didn't even know what a rudder is.Point taken. I've gone through the CDs a few times now, and I've noticed some things like that. Given how biased my brain is toward spatial reasoning, I do a lot better with a 3D model than I do with a pile of printed directions.I'll volunteer to be the first to start building with the templates and 3D models. In keeping with the rudder-challenged folks, I think we ought to make a file available that has those notes in it, keyed to the drawings somehow. Maybe like footnotes? I'm looking forward to our little project bearing fruit. I'd love to flip the switch to on, as Dust is so fond of saying. -dave This is not a sig. This is a duck. Quack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyslongez Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Dale R Let me find another source I'll go right to Autocads website they have a viewer you can get from them for free as well. besides if they want an address give them one. The one I like to use is 3415 Rhinoshit wy. las Vegas Nv 89123 LOL Dave start with the 2D I have on Ez.org I'm doing the front seat and rear seat bulkhead first as a test run. I allready have the gear attach bulkhead detail done in 3D. it's shadded not rendered. Footnotes are a perfect idea lets role with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karoliina Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Not everyone that is looking to build a Long-EZ has access to CAD software That is not entirely accurate: Everyone in fact has access to CAD software. It can be completely free that you put on top of your PC hardware: - Ubuntu Linux Breezy 5.10. Cost USD $0. http://www.ubuntulinux.com - RibbonSoft QCad. Cost USD $0. http://www.ribbonsoft.com/qcad.html Now everyone that has access to PC, has access to CAD software. Linux also goes in very easily, Ubuntu can either resize the Windows partition and make dual boot so you can choose to boot to either to Linux or Windows or you can choose to get rid of the Windows - who needs Windows anyway (Unless you are a hardcore gamer that wants to play all the latest commercial games, Linux has quite all the (other) software as replacements available that are available for Windows - the only difference is that you don't need to pay for them. Installation of Ubuntu Linux is btw easier than the installation of Windows and Linux is safer in terms of viruses, worms etc. attacks coming from Internet, especially for person who is not really well into computers and knows how to tune the firewall etc. properly (which is must for Windows and not so necessary for Linux)). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted January 7, 2006 Author Share Posted January 7, 2006 Tony, I took a look at your drawings so far and they look great. I see what you're doing and think that you should continue in that direction -- designing a modified Long-EZ -- without too much concern for "preserving the Long-EZ plans/design". I see the original drawings in there for most items, but didn't see it on some of the bulkheads. I'll look to put these files up here in a designated area for download and publishing. Looking good! Using Bentley Viewer, it did report that the scale you're using is 'decimal', which it can't handle apparently. See the attached screen shot for where it suggests converting to inches. I did this and all measurements were converted, but some were off by a couple ten-thousandths (6.3748" for example). Not really an issue, but I'm wondering if there's a way to set your scale in Inches? That is not entirely accurate: Everyone in fact has access to CAD software. Looks like I'm being schooled on semantics. You are correct. I meant that not everyone that's building a Long-EZ wants to have access to CAD software. In other words, SOME want the templates in a tidy cookbook and want to go through the process as quickly as possible. Installation of Ubuntu Linux is btw easier than the installation of Windows and Linux is safer in terms of viruses, worms etc. attacks coming from Internet, especially for person who is not really well into computers and knows how to tune the firewall etc. properly (which is must for Windows and not so necessary for Linux)).These are not proven facts. The United States Government's Computer Emergency Readiness Team tracks all security-related vulnerabilities and found that Linux derivatives had nearly 3x as many issues as Windows. Windows XP and Windows 2003 Server with the latest service packs are tight, and I can't imagine how pressing the [Next] button several times during installation could be any easier. Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyslongez Posted January 7, 2006 Share Posted January 7, 2006 Jon Which one don't you have that has the original and the modified version? I'm guessing by your post you have one or the other of the two is that correct? I may have not grabbed that one from the file sorry about that I'll be sending you the 3D models here shortly hang on to your socks Dave if you are still out there can you view 3D drawings? if so give me your E-mail and I'll send them to you as well, just to look them over. Then we can make them public for the group. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpaton Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Still here Tony. My address is in your PM box. -dave This is not a sig. This is a duck. Quack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyslongez Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Dave and Jon I'll be sendng the 3D's here shortly I'll finish then up tonight. This is alot of fun. very challenging. I'm just trying to figure out some thru holes that won't get shaded over. If anyone has any ideas please speak up I'm kinda hunting and pecking here. this is a new one for me. Jon I sent the Firewall drawing to Avery on the Ez.org site do you have those? and yes all I did was draw the firewall 2"in wider, 1"in on either side of the center line obviously . Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Matcho Posted January 8, 2006 Author Share Posted January 8, 2006 Tony, I don't see stock drawings for the F28 or landing gear bulkheads. It could be me. BTW, Bentley View is doing a good job of navigating around these DWGs, including the 3D view of your modified landing gear setup. Jon Matcho Builder & Canard Zone Admin Now: Rebuilding Quickie Tri-Q200 N479E Next: Resume building a Cozy Mark IV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyslongez Posted January 8, 2006 Share Posted January 8, 2006 Jon I think I may have only drawn the modofied f-28. I haven't finished the gear attach bulkheads yet I'm trying to finish those now. Bear with me I'm a little busy I'm trying to make time to finish these and still get 4 hrs of sleep a night. did you get the firewall drawings? Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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