CAD drawings for Long-EZ. (Link to ez.org)

[tonyslongez]

Dave

See if this helps, only difference is besides the complexity, I won't have a hudge mouth for an intake. The overall concept is the same. The ducting for the radiator is going behind the rear seat bulkhead I'm drawing that in 3d, when I finish I'll send it to you then you'll go OOOHHHH O.K. and the headache will magically disapear . Are you using E.E Cad for the PCB? Those things are tough to stare at I hope they pay you big bucks my friend.

They must, your building an airplane

[dpaton]

Tony-

Ahhhh...I think I see now. The big scoop is mainly a fairing, and only a small area of it actually passes air to the engine, replicating (roughly) the domensions of the old male EZ inlet? That's how my 3D brain sees it anyway. Are you going to area-rule the scoop at all?

I've been thinking about over-the-shoulder downdraft cooling recently. Some folks like NACA ducting, some like seperated ram-air. The ram-air inlets have an issue though, where they don't join to the fuse cleanly. I was thinking something like the big General Dynamics get fighter inlets, where the top outside corner is swept forward, and the lower inside corner is faired cleanly into the fuse. Look at this picture and think about that little light blue spot in front of the cowl blister. Thoughts?

The boards and schematics are all in Altium Designer, which is the genesis of DxP, which was the descendent of Protel. Code is in one of a host of compilers, depending on the processor that's used (PIC, AVR, 8051, Epson, SX, etc). I don't get big bucks, but I do get enough to pay the mortgage and the remodelling bills. One of these days the house will be done. Then I can get some plans and start ruining t-shirts with epoxy again (I did R/C race boats for a while). Someday it'll mean I'll have a plane. For now, it's all in my head and my notebooks.

-dave

[tonyslongez]

Dave

You got it,the scoop is mostly just fairing work. yes I will area rule that scoop as soon as I have nailed down a radiator. I plan on using an exhaust diffuser. Most guys use a straight header into the diffuser with no muffler and it's god awful loud . I watched a velocity with a diffuser on it leave oshkosh this year, you could hear him well after he was out of sight, WOW that thing was loud. I don't want that. This is my idea for a shut up diffuser.

You can do the over the shoulder thing. I think I have some pics from Oshkosh on my web page with those in it really neat looks cool

I think they work pretty well. Are you thinking of an air cooled type motor?

Tony

[dpaton]

Tony-

Yup, I kinda figured it'd look like that.

A muffler hmm? I know the rotaries are really loud beasties with straight pipes, so it's probably a good idea. My only concern is with having the outlet that far out on the prop, and obstructing that much of the useful pro arc. Mike Melvile found a few knots, some climb performance, and lower gph numbers when he moved his exhaust as close in to the spinner as possible. I'm shooting for long range at reasonably quick speeds over long distances, as I'll be building the plane to visit the coasts from here in the midwest. There's a lot to be decided still, like whether to turbo a Conti like Dust and normalize for higher altitudes (18k or less, no IFR for me just yet), to stick with NA and compromise speed for efficiency (Bill Lingenfelter gets ~3.2gpg at 153mph in his retractable O-200 Long-EZ), or to go with an automotive conversion motor.

No matter what, that choice is at least 5-7 years out, so I'm not too worried about it. I'm playing with ideas while I wait for life to catch up to my dreams.

-dave

[tonyslongez]

Dave don't wait to long to start 5yrs is nothing to laugh at from what I have read about most builders, 5yrs usually turns into 7 or 8. I can move that diffuser up to the prop more here is the Pic. I'll know better when I can draw to scale right now obviously these are very preliminary just to get the idea on paper. I hope I can get this look for my diffuser exhaust. I think the Lycoming has 53 moving parts Rotary, 3! guaranteed to never drop a valve Love it! thirsty little sucker though but, Like you, I have time on my side. When I'm ready to install this thing the redrives will be perfect, not that they are not good now. the industry is still making improvements on them, all the electrical and fuel delivery will be perfect, and hopefully everyone can agree on the best way to cool it. I'll be putting my engine in at the very last minute.

Tony

[dpaton]

That's more like what I was thinking of. Props love lots of clean air on the 85% of their length from the tip back in. I'll be looking forward to seeing how your gear does too. How much of a weight penalty are you absorbing with it?

5 years is an inside guess. If I had money on it, it'd be 7-10. By then maybe the ultra-efficient turbofan technology from the 777 and 787 will have trickled down to the GA world and I can build myself a proper EZ-jet.

-dave

[tonyslongez]

So far with the 210 gear you see on the web page I'm only 28lbs heavier and that is with the steel rv 4 landing gear. My gear boxes are a little heavier than the 210. The aluminum legs from grove will be quite a bit lighter than the stock rv4 gear legs so I'm guessing (hoping) to be around 20-15 lbs heavier than stock gear. I need some weight back there anyway because I stretched my fuselage 6"in from the front seat bulkhead to the back seat bulkhead.

Tony

[H.Zwakenberg]

Tony,

great drawings so far, thanks a lot! Do I understand this thread correctly in assuming that this is going to develop into a complete set of drawings?

Just wondered, because I own the TERF set of cd's.

bye

Hans

[tonyslongez]

Hans

Sorry No. My intention for these drawings was just to show initially how the longer nose is made. I wanted a longer nose for my Long Ez but there was no real documentation on what the bulkheads looked like. I drew the modification I had made to my airplane so other builders could get an idea of what to do. I figured why stop there? so I drew the other bulkheads as well. The new firewall drawing is complete I just have to send it off to Avery over at Ez.org.

Tony

[jridge]

Just found this old topic....anyone know where the .zip file now resides that's linked in the first post?

Jeff

[Kent Ashton]

Here 

 

[jridge]

I was looking for the long nose mod CAD file.  The Open EZ has the "stock" length nose.

[Voidhawk9]

AFAIK long-nose mods are all custom - you design it yourself.

Don't put more area ahead of the nose than necessary to achieve the look or space you need. It eats into yaw stability faster than you expect.

[Marc Zeitlin]

8 hours ago, Voidhawk9 said:

Don't put more area ahead of the nose than necessary to achieve the look or space you need. It eats into yaw stability faster than you expect.

And pitch stability, and deep stall margin as well. Area ahead of the CG is generally a bad idea. having flown a customer's LE with a very long nose, I can attest to the loss of stability, particularly at low speeds. It also makes slipping a real adventure.

[hdmx]

I know this thread is pretty old but I wanted to ask whether there is still a general interest in having CAD models of Long EZ parts? Or if someone actually made a complete model after all this time? I plan to build a Long and for proper planning and manufacturing I'd like to have a full model of the entire aircraft. Already started working on a model myself and if there's a general interest in such a model, I'd consider making the files public

[zolotiyeruki]

Ary Glantz might have one, but I seem to remember him saying he only used it for his own reference and didn't want to share, probably for liability reasons. He has kept a fantastic builder's log here: http://www.aryjglantz.com/p/blog-page.html?m=0

[hdmx]

Yes, I've already talked to Ary. His builder's log is great and explained a lot, is has been really helpful to understand the plans and drawings. Unfortunately he does not want to share the 3D model for liability reasons. Maybe the US has much stricter laws regarding liability, I don't have this problem in my country so I'm pretty relaxed and don't see any potential issues in sharing my models and drawings. Just wanted to check first if someone is interested because preparing the models, drawings, and documentation is quite time consuming - there's a huge difference between creating models just for myself and creating models that can be used by other people too

[Voidhawk9]

If done well, it would be a great resource.

I don't expect you'll see a great outpouring of interest before there is something to share. And then it will probably be more from the younger builders - no offense to the more experienced among us!

[jridge]

hdmax -

I'd be interested in Long EZ CAD files.  I was toying with building my own CAD model as I started building one.  But I ended up purchasing a previously completed/flying Long EZ so haven't continued with the modeling effort.

 

[Jon Matcho]

On 10/27/2023 at 11:02 AM, hdmx said:

Already started working on a model myself and if there's a general interest in such a model, I'd consider making the files public

That would be great, but here are the issues that come to mind after being in and out of this water for years:

1. The model needs to be trusted, therefore it needs to be built in public, or open and verifiable. All prior attempts have failed in this aspect. You would need to commit to making the files public if you expect any level of adoption, or even good feedback.
2. There will be an enthusiastic crowd, but that crowd will also include folks that want to improve things (which you may as well). The result will be a Not-EZ. While that may work for a few, it won't work for all. "CAD" seems to imply accuracy and precision to many, but the reality is often that CAD models contain dimensions and measurements that are 100% exactly wrong.
3. It's a lot of work, and every dimension needs to be accurately verified by not only you, but others before gaining that critical level of trust (see point 1 above).
4. CAD formats. Which one will you use? Which system will you use? CAD files tend to suffer glitches when importing and exporting between systems. This is why organizations tend to standardize on a single CAD software suite.

I've thought long and hard how to make this happen, and have yet to get over the amount of work for the expected reward when completed. Any ideas are welcome.

[thseng]

6 hours ago, Jon Matcho said:

I've thought long and hard how to make this happen, and have yet to get over the amount of work for the expected reward when completed. Any ideas are welcome.

If it is possible at all, Onshape is probably the CAD tool to use.  Many people can work on the same project (or even the same part) simultaneously.  Unless you want to fork over $1500 a year for a pro account, all free account projects are publicly viewable (and in the public domain, last I read the fine print).  

Accuracy and what to do when the plans are not clear is a problem.  You have to model something, and then that guess becomes gospel. What about purchased parts or parts made from templates that are not fully dimensioned?  

As a side note, as a mechanical engineer, I'm frustrated by the format of the aircraft plans that I've studied so far. Show me a fully dimensioned drawing of the finished part! It's like the difference between step-by-step driving instructions and a map showing where the destination is located.  The directions will get you there, but you won't know where you are.  

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by thseng

[hdmx]

@Jon Matcho thanks for the feedback. Some points are indeed a bit problematic. I fully intend to publish all CAD files. Of course everyone will be able to check and verify or give feedback. Point 2 is what will be most problematic. It's not a "stock EZ". I will modify the plans according to my needs. Some materials have changed, for example I'm only able to get the PVC foams in metric thicknesses and my drawings will reflect that. Personally I'll be using CATIA V5. Certainly not the most user-friendly nor the cheapest piece of software. Exporting to a neutral format is probably the only way of sharing the models

[Jon Matcho]

Browsing this thread I found this:

On 12/7/2005 at 11:09 AM, Jon Matcho said:

FWIW, I vote to not bother with the decimal inches. Reason being is that 99.9% of the tape measures do NOT have tenths of inches on them AND a tenth of an inch is LESS PRECISE than 1/16th of an inch.

For the record, I no longer agree with moving from the plans decimal inches to 16ths of an inch. Just get a decimal tape measure. Stanley makes a good one.

25 minutes ago, hdmx said:

I fully intend to publish all CAD files. Of course everyone will be able to check and verify or give feedback.

Many will appreciate this, and the feedback may be beneficial for yourself.

26 minutes ago, hdmx said:

Point 2 is what will be most problematic. It's not a "stock EZ". I will modify the plans according to my needs. Some materials have changed, for example I'm only able to get the PVC foams in metric thicknesses and my drawings will reflect that.

I understand and am not complaining for you to do anything other than be VERY clear that the model is "not a stock EZ" as you point out. Please.

30 minutes ago, hdmx said:

Personally I'll be using CATIA V5. Certainly not the most user-friendly nor the cheapest piece of software. Exporting to a neutral format is probably the only way of sharing the models

Yeah, not many at all will be using that software. It will be an interesting test to see how various CAD systems load the neutral format exported from your CATIA system. I can test on Autodesk Fusion 360 and the Solidworks offering made available by EAA.org in the US.

[hdmx]

Slowly but steadily... Pretty busy right now so it's going to take a while, however some parts are already finished. I'll probably do more modifications than originally anticipated. That probably limits the number of people interested in my project but maybe someone likes my mods and ends up building something similar.

By the way does anyone here have the installation instructions of the infinity retractable landing gear? I'd be very interested to see how it's installed to the structure and how the structure might be beefed up locally in order to take the large shock loads from a rough landing. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find any technical details

[jridge]

Looks like a great start!