Required Subaru modifications

[Len Evansic]

So in an effort to research engines, I couldn't fail to notice the Subaru conversions. Eggenfellner and Crossflow offer engines that they have 'modified', but both are cryptic in describing what they've done, besides the PSRU's. Does anyone out there know what is required? I am having trouble discerning what they do to span the difference between their prices (~$22-28,000 US) and the ~$850 that a JDM Subaru engine costs on ebay.

 

I know the ECU and the related auto-specific stuff (O2 sensors) have to be worked around, but what modifications to a Subaru block or heads is necessary?

 

As an aside, how much does a four cylinder 2.0 - 2.5 L weigh? The other posts I saw here focused on a bigger cowl on a Velocity. I've seen many Subaru engines, and know that they are certainly no bigger than a Lycoming.

 

I've seen Al Wick's page, as well as Phil Johnson's. Is anyone else building or flying with a Subaru engine?

 

-- Len

[Jon Matcho]

Does anyone out there know what is required? I am having trouble discerning what they do to span the difference between their prices (~$22-28,000 US) and the ~$850 that a JDM Subaru engine costs on ebay.

I do NOT know exactly what they do, but I suppose it's ~$25,000 worth of parts and labor towards converting the engine to be "aircraft grade". Regardless of their actual costs, it's up to the rules of supply and demand how much they charge / we pay.

 

If you can figure it all out yourself, as some do, you'll save a bunch of bucks. On the other hand, if anything goes wrong you may not be up in the air, or worse yet, be looking for a place to land.

 

Is anyone else building or flying with a Subaru engine?

There are a handful that have identified Subaru engines as their intent, and even some Long-EZs flying with them. There might even be a Cozy in the air with a Subaru. It's really too early for anyone to declare a standard for this approach.

 

I'm going to build for the next few years, then decide between rotary, Lycoming, or Subaru at the last possible moment I can. There are issues with this, particularly with a fuel-injection system requiring specific plumbing. I'm just going to work through it.

[Jerry Schneider]

Al Wick , http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index.html is currently flying his Cozy with a Subaru... and loves it. Check his site out. He makes a pretty good case for Subaru and is an EXCELLENT reference on how to do it.

[gupri]

So in an effort to research engines, I couldn't fail to notice the Subaru conversions. Eggenfellner and Crossflow offer engines that they have 'modified', but both are cryptic in describing what they've done, besides the PSRU's. Does anyone out there know what is required? I am having trouble discerning what they do to span the difference between their prices (~$22-28,000 US) and the ~$850 that a JDM Subaru engine costs on ebay.

 

I know the ECU and the related auto-specific stuff (O2 sensors) have to be worked around, but what modifications to a Subaru block or heads is necessary?

 

As an aside, how much does a four cylinder 2.0 - 2.5 L weigh? The other posts I saw here focused on a bigger cowl on a Velocity. I've seen many Subaru engines, and know that they are certainly no bigger than a Lycoming.

 

I've seen Al Wick's page, as well as Phil Johnson's. Is anyone else building or flying with a Subaru engine?

 

-- Len

Whilst I can't tell you the weight of a 2.0 -2.5 L Subaru, the weight of the 3.3L Subaru SVX with turbo and intercooler (~350 hp) is about 400 lbs.

gupri

[gupri]

Hi Jerry,

thanks for that link about Subaru modifications - I think it's excellent.

 

gupri

[argoldman]

So in an effort to research engines, I couldn't fail to notice the Subaru conversions. Eggenfellner and Crossflow offer engines that they have 'modified', but both are cryptic in describing what they've done,

-- Len

 

Len,

 

Don't know much about the crossflow, but I am told that the Egg is a complete firewall back (not including prop, spinner or cowl.) system, including engine, electronics, injection, exhaust, engine mount, PRSU, cooling system etc.

 

Jan tells me that he is proving the pusher in his Defiant. The non-standard installation (pusher) is an additional 500$.

 

I think that his prices just went or are about to go up (for the 6 cylinder)because of the new PRSU that he has designed (according to him, raising the max power to 220HP)

[Len Evansic]

I can't afford Mr. Eggenfellner's conversions for a tractor, let alone a pusher. I'm just wondering what internal modifications are necessary for aircraft use. It seems doubtful that he adds $17,000 worth of parts and labor to a Subaru crate motor, to make it airworthy. How much twiddling does he do inside the crank case and between the valve covers? Does he change the cams, valves, pistons, or add new bearings that aren't used in the automotive use?

 

That's what I'm wondering. How much of his rework is functional, and how much is cosmetic and packaging?

 

-- Len

[Todd Sanderson]

His engine gets no internal modification whatsoever. You are getting a factory stock engine with a prsu, motor mount, radiators, starter, alternator, adjustable fuel regulator, slightly modified wiring harness, two fuel pumps, and the ECU. Plan on spending more time installing this package than a Lycoming with no pre-fab wiring, etc.

[argoldman]

I can't afford Mr. Eggenfellner's conversions for a tractor, let alone a pusher. I'm just wondering what internal modifications are necessary for aircraft use. It seems doubtful that he adds $17,000 worth of parts and labor to a Subaru crate motor, to make it airworthy. How much twiddling does he do inside the crank case and between the valve covers? Does he change the cams, valves, pistons, or add new bearings that aren't used in the automotive use?

 

That's what I'm wondering. How much of his rework is functional, and how much is cosmetic and packaging?

 

-- Len

Len,

 

Please be advised that I have no relationship with Egg, except that I am considering one of his engines.

 

I don't know if Egg does any specific modification to the basic engine itself. With his used engines, (the bulk of what he sells), he claims to hunt for "cherry", low mileage engines from rollovers or rearended wrecks that have low milage, he does a compression check, visual inspection, car-fax evaluation of the car, and builds from there. I don't think that he does anything to the engine, itself. If a new engine, he defeats the Idle valve timing shift mechanism.

 

I think that his PRSU, itself is in the retail neighborhood of $5900.00 itself.

 

I'm sure that he gets a good premium for assembling the package.

 

What he does provide is an intake manifold, engine mount, exhaust system, cooling system that have been shown, by his testing to work together properly.

 

By scrounging, you probably can do a lot better $ wise.

 

As in most things aeronautical, there is a compromise. If you can copy what he has done, exactly, or copy someone else that has done something successful, then you have no R&D. If you are doing a one of a kind, all of the R&D is on you, all the multiple parts that you have had to buy and discard, and of course all of the time, you may find that the premium charged for an operating package (if indeed it is) may not appear as confiscitory as it seems.

 

 

I have done my own R&D on using a Midwest Rotary engine in my Dragonfly, and a quite aware of the cost in time and money involved in such an endeavor. Since I am getting more "mature" (spelled older), I don't know if I personally want to spend 1 -2 years on engine tweaking)

 

If you join the Soob list, and/or get Contact Magazine (recommended) you will get all kinds of opinions and techniques that others have used in their conversions.

 

One other, unfortunate fact is that insurance companies are beginning to look at non-aircraft engines as being uninsurable, or with very low insurability.

 

Purchasing an engine package, such as with Egg, (and a few other specific vendors) enables normal insurance availability.