forum info management

[dust]

As many of you know, i am especially concerned about newby's getting info out of this forum in an easy manner. I will review ALL posts and flag them as interesting so that a search of just the flag word or the flag word and another word that is at least 4 letters long will result in valuable info being learned by those looking and not by a mess of posts that are not really on point. I have a solution, and am willing to do it, but not for long as the amount of info is really really getting large. Are there any other recommendations and i would like the recommendations to come with the offer of doing the work. Nobody wants to be dumped on to take on the huge task of reviewing all of the info here.

 

enjoy the build

dust

[douglasrfix]

Technically a newbie, I have in fact reviewed all of the info on the mailing lists (except CS) and this forum. If you have a plan I'm up for supplying some labor.

[Jon Matcho]

We've been through this before, and the vote was against.

 

vBulletin has Version 3.0 out now, which has improved search capability. From what I have seen, it is indeed improved.

 

Let's wait for me to upgrade to that before we implement a workaround.

[John Slade]

I agree with Jon.

 

I know you only want to help, Mike, but manually reviewing and rating every message is subjective and labor intensive. Eventually you'll get bored with it and it'll fall down.

 

I'd suggest this to new builders...

Do a search for the subject of interest.

If you don't find what you're looking for, ask the question. Either you'll get an answer, or someone will remember where the information resides and point you to it.

[cncdoc]

Believe it or not, the wildcard works (not very well...but it works) I'd like to see the search at least 3 letters. Filter out non-noun words and voila! you're golden! At least in theory. Keep up the good work Jon! and Thanks!

 

Kevin

[dust]

So what exactly is the solution

 

enjoy the build

dust

[Jon Matcho]

I understand the problem to be that the search engine here is not up to par. I agree, and so the solution, as I see it, is to upgrade to the next generation of the vBulletin forum software (3.0).

 

I have been watching this version for some time. It went through a heavy beta cycle, where many sites even used it in production. The search engine has been improved, and we should take a look at that before considering any other means to index and search this site.

 

I will plan to do this over this coming weekend, so please expect the site to be down for a couple of hours now and again.

[dust]

No, the search engine works just fine, look for text it finds it, everywhere. The problem is winowwing out the wheat from the chaff. Which threads that are labelled blankety blank, really have blankety blank in them and is that blankety blank remotly worth reading from a blankety blank info quest. By there definition, search engines can only answer questions that you know to ask, people can answer questions that they know you should ask. So no the search engine does nothing to solve the problem, but thanks for asking and thanks for putting it in.

 

enjoy the build

dust

[dust]

John, I have a really good memory, almost total recal. Not perfect but darn darn good, ask those that know me, and i might as well say it , quite a few on this forum do because they have slaved, i mean helped me build my cozies. When i say the offer is about to run out it is because of the following reasons. My recall of threads is almost at the full level and new info is slowly pushing the old info out, i really have a hole in my head and my head is full of rocks too and the rocks move around during the day and "knock" info out of the hole, the hole is small, but a little of what i know or think i know is constantly flowing out. The quantity of threads is growing rapidly and my desire is rapidly shifting away from air frame building to old, expensive, unrealible aircraft engine installation. The offer I made is real and I will do a very, very good job of it. I will not carry that over to the future, youns are more than welcome to do that. If we don't do this we insult many who have contributed here, I was even surprised at the info i found that i had not read from the short period of time that the forum was here before i became involved. This forum was supposed to be a repository of info, not just a chat room. Because as of now that is all that it is, a chat room. Are there tons of tips and tricks in the chapter specific construction area, NO, why, because the plans are that great and there really are not that many "tips and tricks" Are people making modifications to there airplanes, not many, review the thread on modifications that HAVE been made and it is a very very short list. I came here with the express intention of leaving what little information i have, pulling info out of people that come by, and that info would be here. I have a saying in my shop, if you don't know where it is, you don't own it. I am a newby at heart, i haven't changed since the day i started building, just my level of stupid, uneeded ideas has. This can clearly be demonstrated by reviewing the recent item i posted on puting titanium on the air brake. I am here in the name of "dust" so that my intentions are clear, no personal gain ever and in the end, i just get swept away by the new builders and energetic people to take my place. I almost am at the point of needing no additional slaves to build an airframe, don't think many will come for the filling and sanding part of the airframe build. I haver been able to con great work out of the many that have helped us in the guise of training them. The "NEW" wanna be builders are arriving daily and the info in here, if winnowed, can be of great value, as it sits, it is only of value to someone that really like to read ALLOT or someone that likes to ask questions. That leaves the lurkers OUT. There are and have been many lurkers, i know the guests are not guests, but some of them are guests and never join, just decide the plane is too hard and go away, buy plans and start working and a few get up the nerve to ask a question. Sometimes these newby's are rudly pointed to a search engine to find the answer out buy doing laborious searches, not if i am on the board. So, if you want to accept my offer, fine. If not, many who have contributed exelant information deserve an appology, they wrote way more than what was necessary to answer "A" question, they wrote to answer the question for all for a long time. One of the many threads that brings this to the forfront is the one where a real acrobatic canard show pilot was quoted in depth. A great thread that is in the process to falling off of the radar screen, or has it fallen off already. In a year, will anyone know where that thread is and it's valuable information? NO. Many reading this today don't know the thread i am talking about and would with a real solution, not a search engine. Will i just flag MY threads because I wrote them and of course they are all great and should be read. No, I don't play that game. Well, Yes i will, everyone can give me !@#$% for smoking, that is a real important one. When i reviewed posts from before my time, i found one from whilemson, great info that i was unaware of, and as i know who he is, read it with special attention and flagged it, great stuff. A search engine WILL not answer a question you do not know to ask

 

enjoy the build

dust

[Rob Wright]

Netflix has a pretty cool system of rating movies. After you rent a movie you rate them on a scale of 1 to 5. Consider a system for our community where each person can rate a thread based on its usefulness or some other measuring stick. From the collective whole the most important or interesting things will naturally rise to the top. This could be one interesting way of looking at the information that this community generates. I have been visiting this community on a regular basis for the past year or so and I really like the way we can communicate and participate. The contributions each of the builders who have gone before are amazing and make experimental aviation much safer and rewarding. Could a system like this help us?

[John Slade]

Mike, The more ways to get at the data the better. Why not write a new thread called "the best of the best" or something, and put links to the threads / posts you think are worth reading. Maybe even catagorize the links. The main problem I had with the "Dust picks" thing was the bombardment of emails about single word posts. Put all the input in a new thread in the forum tips section and this wont happen. Maybe Jon can make the thread stick at the top or something. Have at it. 

 

John

[Rob Wright]

With a numeric rating system a persons rating could be given a weight. For example a person who has completed an airplane would have a multiplier of two. All kinds of things could be given weights so that more qualified people could impact the importance of various pieces of information. This would give the people who have more knowledge in a specific area the ability to pull up pieces of information that they feel are most important. People like myself who don’t know much but who are reading all the time also would impact the "usefulness" of information but not to the degree that a veteran builder or specialist might.

[Jim Sower]

Originally posted by dust

John, I have a really good memory, almost total recal ... my recall of threads is almost at the full level ... quantity of threads is growing rapidly and **MY** desire is rapidly shifting away from air frame building to old, expensive, unrealible aircraft engine installation ...

The problem doesn't seem to me to be a search engine issue. I regard it as A) a user discipline issue; B) a site design issue.

 

A) Most of the posts are in the "Coffee Shop" area or "General Canard Construction" which in fact turns out to be pretty much interchangeanble with Coffee Shop. Many of the threads in these areas actually change subject matter several times within the thread. Even if you have total recall of all the threads, under the current operation, you would have to remember what portion of what thread some particular subject got discussed. There is a lot of stuff in these two areas that should reside somewhere else, and users (and Jon and John) should start a new thread or move a post to a more appropriate area when the subject matter changes within a thread. This has been brought up before, but nothing of any consequence was done about it.

 

B) There is a LOT of interesting discussion on this site that has no area defined in which it should be logically posted. For example, if there was a "Performance" area with sub-areas for "Aerodynamics", "Canard Issues", "General Aircraft Performance", etc. the aerobatic post you alluded to and all of the very lengthy discussion(s) on the "efficiency" and "superiority" of canard configuration over tractors would have had an intuitive place to be posted, and if posts to those subjects were posted there or moved there when it became evident where they belonged, even the most rudimentary search engine would work really well.

 

If there were "Turbo" and "Comparative Engine Performance" area(s) on the site, these subjects (which were discussed very extensively in the Coffee House) would have a logical, intuitive place to live.

 

A "Tips and Tricks" area (not chapter specific) would also be of great benefit ... the discussion of "Plastic Bagging" comes to mind.

 

And the list goes on .... but you get my drift ...

 

... The offer I made is real and I will do a very, very good job of it ... if we don't do this we insult many who have contributed here ... forum was supposed to be a repository of info, not just a chat room ... as of now that is all that it is ...

May I suggest that your efforts might be more productive if you were to get together with Jon and John and modify the design of the site to include important subject areas that could not have been predicted at the outset but have turned out to be quite significant. Your photographic memory of post subjects would be invaluable in making a list of threads that are wrongly resident in the Coffee House and General Construction areas and linking them to a more appropriate area so that they could be migrated when the site is reconfigured. As a matter of fact, researching those types of posts is obviously a critical first step in the redesign of the site - determining what new/different subject areas are needed.

 

... I came here with the express intention of leaving what little information i have, pulling info out of people that come by, and that info would be here ...

Exactly. The reshuffle process I've outlined seems to me to be an excellent opportunity to do exactly that. If my memory was even remotely as good as yours, I would be making a list instead of trying to encourage you.

 

... "NEW" wanna be builders are arriving daily and the info in here, if winnowed, can be of great value, as it sits, it is only of value to someone that really like to read A LOT or someone that likes to ask questions...

Exactly. So let the winnowing begin. Put ALL of the good stuff/real information in the appropiate, searchable area, and leave everything else in the Coffee Shop (so you don't aggrivate someone by deleting his deathless prose).

 

... That leaves the lurkers OUT. There are and have been many lurkers, I know the guests are not guests, but some of them are guests and never join, just decide the plane is too hard and go away, buy plans and start working and a few get up the nerve to ask a question....

I tend to think the reshuffle I have in mind would give newbies AND lurkers a much better basis on which to make an informed decision.

 

One man's opinion ....

[dust]

813 threads · 6,493 posts With the tools i have at hand, go into each thread, review to bring into memory the only way i can do this is the way i did it before. The way i did it before was very liberal, making sure to not offend and leaning towards liberal picking. I was paring not butchering. Given more tools i can do more, but creating a thread of threads is way more editorial and time consuming than would allow a good job in a reasonable amount of time. BTW, learned quite a little when i was reading the threads i had never read because they were before my time. That alone tought me that the exercize was worthwhile. Also, as the list has grown over the past year and a half, so have i, cmon, a titanium air brake BLASPHEMY. John/jon/mark/nick, give me an easy tool and i will do it. As youuns know i do try to move stuff, especially giving me !@#$ or me giving some one else %$#@ to a place where it can be easily ignored. As far as re shuffling the past, dificult posts would have to be broken up to do it in a meaningful way. Now from here on out, if a mover could be found to keep the threads on point and in the right spot, it really needs to be done.

 

enjoy the build

dust

[Jon Matcho]

Originally posted by Rob Wright Netflix has a pretty cool system of rating movies. After you rent a movie you rate them on a scale of 1 to 5. Consider a system for our community where each person can rate a thread based on its usefulness or some other measuring stick. From the collective whole the most important or interesting things will naturally rise to the top.

Sounds good to me, and already available. Look at the lower right of the thread display, and you should see a 'Rate This Thread' drop down. Select your vote and press the 'Go' button. If you change your mind later, that's okay -- just update your vote. Only one vote per person is recorded.

 

The analogy to Netflix is good, and also compares to online product reviews. I think I speak for most that it's important to have an aggregate rating scheme, where the input of many is factored into the rating.

 

Mike (dust), I think everyone would appreciate you going through important threads and rating them. You've been there, and have done that with more more chapters than most here. While you're at it, feel free to collect a list of thread IDs (check the # on the URL) and let me know what section they should be moved to. I'd be happy to move a couple hundred threads if worthwhile.

 

If you feel so motivated to share your own experience and knowledge, a few more ideas come to mind:

• Start your own Web site
• Create a FAQ, like the one at www.cozybuilders.org
• This has got me thinking about allowing members to create their own Blog sections here, somewhat like their own Web pages, but without the expense/difficulty.

For sure there are a lot of good ideas here...

 

 

Originally posted by Rob Wright With a numeric rating system a persons rating could be given a weight. For example a person who has completed an airplane would have a multiplier of two.

vBulletin 3.0 touches upon this, and is something to look at.

 

 

Originally posted by Jim Sower The problem doesn't seem to me to be a search engine issue. I regard it as A) a user discipline issue; B) a site design issue.

I agree with this, and recommend the following:

 

A) Stick to topic; leave the chatter in the Coffee House or Chat Room

B) I'm ready to address the site 'design' (forum hierarchy). I will look to incorporate these changes, as well as any received here, this weekend. We had already discussed these in a prior thread.

C) Search engine improvements won't hurt.

 

 

Originally posted by dust posts would have to be broken up to do it in a meaningful way.

Threads can only be moved to different forum sections, but not broken up.

 

 

Originally posted by dust I am here in the name of "dust" so that my intentions are clear, no personal gain ever...

"dust" by any other name would still be Mike Skorija. I've mentioned before that I prefer addressing people here by their real names as opposed to "login/screen names". It just seems appropriate when discussing topics of aeronautics.

 

Everyone can begin rating threads now, and the votes will be kept as part of future upgrades. I'll bite the bullet and do the upgrade this weekend. Any sections that don't seem to fit can be adjusted, and threads moved as appropriate.

[dust]

Please remove my name

[dust]

jon said

 

Create a FAQ, like the one at www.cozybuilders.org

 

Jon you and i just don't see eye to eye

 

but on this one i shall take your advice, please send me all of my posts to this forum and then delete them from the forum.

 

enjoy the build

 

dust

[mplafleur]

Please don't. The wealth of knowledge is too great to loose!

 

If you start a thread and your post is removed, then the whole thread is deleted!

[Jon Matcho]

Originally posted by dust Please remove my name

From where? This thread, or all threads where you yourself and others have freely used your name? I don't have a problem referring to you as dust going forward, but I was unaware of any "rule" not to use your name.

 

 

but on this one i shall take your advice, please send me all of my posts to this forum and then delete them from the forum.

First, "no". Second, that's making quite a stretch from anything I've said.

 

In spite of this digression, I still plan to incorporate the adjustments discussed later this weekend. It's high time the forum took a step forward. I personally am looking forward to the new feel of the forum, which I am confident will be regarded as 'better' by most everyone.

[Jon Matcho]

The new forum software and hierarchy has been implemented. I'll prepare a detailed announcement shortly. In the meantime, comment away -- I am certain that the new hierarchy is not perfect. Specifically, I would like to combine the Coffee House and General Canard Discussion, as well as move threads, and address the General Interest section.

 

If the experts can feedback on the Building and Flying sections, that would be great.

[marbleturtle]

Hmmm...

 

Anyone get the feeling their favorite local pub has just turned into a Johnny Rockets?

 

I must be turning into an ol' fart cause I'm resisting change in everything I do. I'll just keep telling myself "change is good" and give it a chance.

[John Slade]

>I must be turning into an ol' fart cause I'm resisting change in everything I do

 

Yea. I know the feeling. That was my reaction too.

 

>I'll just keep telling myself "change is good" and give it a chance.

 

Right. It's probably much better.

[Cozy1200]

So...

 

Besides the new look, what's new in the forum?

[Jon Matcho]

Besides the new look, what's new in the forum?

You should notice quite a few usability improvements, not to mention the new look. For a full list of features now available click here.

 

Beyond the underlying forum software itself, a new forum hierarchy has been implemented to better suit Rutan-based canard building in general. Here's a repeat of the announcement for posterity:

 

 

The Canard Zone Forums have been upgraded with new software. Several items of additional functionality are now available along with an improved user interface. You can find a complete feature list by clicking here.

 

In addition to the software, the forum hierarchy has been improved to incorporate feedback received from many members. Discussions prompting this aspect of the upgrade are listed below, as well as many other discussions in the Forum Tips & Announcements section.

• Changing Forum Hierarchy
• forum info management
• three new main areas needed
• Choosing meaningful subjects - categorization

All of this adds up to some major changes, and with change may come some issues and challenges. Please forward any issues you may have to support@canardzone.com and I will address as soon as possible. If you feel a forum section should be added, renamed, clarified, or moved, please speak up. Your feedback is very much encouraged and I promise to make best efforts to work out all the kinks.

 

Thank you for your input, and keep those comments coming. I look forward to finishing up this particular upgrade with the help and contributions of the membership.

 

Best regards,

Jon

 

[Spodman]

In my chosen dollar-earning activity (ATC) the saying is that the only constant thing is change.

 

I spend a bit of time at www.pprune.com/forums and they update their software from time to time. Everybody grizzles a bit for the first week, but then the advantages become apparent. For instance, the greater visibility of pm's means the answer I got from mplafleur 3 weeks ago has now been read by me

 

I like the logo also Jon