Looking for Cozy Ride

[knotam]

I've ordered the information kit for the Cozy Mk4, and have read countless web pages and forums trying to gather information on this airplane.

 

For everyone else that has started or finished the build process, did you have a chance to ride in a Cozy before deciding on a Cozy.

 

There are two things that are stopping me from building a Cozy. The first is my spouse (this is being worked on). Secondly, I think I'd have a hard time committing to such an undertaking without actually experiencing the Cozy in flight. Which leads me to the question: How do I find a Cozy in which I can be a passenger.

 

I'd feel a little strange outright asking someone to take me up. I saw a Cozy at Clow Airport in Bolingbrook (my home town) last fall. I wasn't thinking of building the Cozy at the time and am now kicking myself for not talking to the owner.

 

Anyway, does anyone have any good ideas?

[macleodm3]

Knotam,

You sound like me about one year ago! I just received my plans, and no, I've never had a ride in a Cozy either. I "discoverd" the hobby of airplane building in the Fall of '02, and am just now getting started. It took that long to convince my wife that this is a genuine interest of mine and that it is a rather common and fun hobby. She was always open to the idea but it was like "Later... not a good time to start" and all that. But this year, it was her who mentioned that it would make a good birthday present. It just took a patient year of casually talking and showing pictures whenever she showed interest. What finally turned the tides was when my brother in law was visiting. I pulled out the info pack (last years b-day present) and showed him what I wanted to do someday. He was real interested and showed his support of the idea.... he had all the typical questions we here about homebuilding, canard design, composites, engines, etc. I have learned SO MUCH from this forum, the email lists, and other forums that I had answers for his questions. Honest, and correct to the best of my knowledge. My spouse is now saying "when you gonna get that shop bult?" She sounds like dust to me!

I got to see Nat's cozy up close last year at Sun-n-Fun, but no ride, and I haven't sat in one either. Nat never mentioned I could sit in it, and really acted like he'd rather be somewhere else. It was HOT and Humid down there. So, I'm headed to Rough River this year (in KY) and I will hopefully have a ride lined up by then. And I will be building airplane parts by then!! So, I too, am asking for a ride. Far southwest Virginia, and Rough River later this year. Oh yeah, I'm gonna try to get down to TN to meet Marc Z. on his monumental flight this year. I believe he's stopping at your place Jim... any room for extra visitors?

[Joe Patterson]

Knotam,

 

You HAVE to ASK........That is the only way.;;;However that being said, It isn't that easy to get a cozy ride.

 

Number one, I don't think there are many flying, and setting up a time between two parties (in different states perhaps) isn't that easy.

 

I swore I wouldn't spend $500 on something I had never had a ride in....Now I have plans at home, and I Just saw my first Cozy last Thursday.

 

I hope you get a ride, but I think it is easier to build a Cozy-Than to get a ride in one.

 

I am still hoping to get a ride in one, if not this month, then next, and if not then ...MAYBE IN JUNE or JULY;)

 

Just put it out there, and let the GODS do as they will with it.

 

 

I HEREBY SWEAR TO GIVE, ANY PROSPECTIVE BUILDERS THAT ASK, A RIDE IN MY "JO-Z / COZY " As long as they pay for the fuel ONCE IT IS FINISHED.

[John Slade]

The only ride I've ever had in a moving Cozy was this afternoon, during taxi test of my own bird.

 

I did get (as in paid for) a short demo ride in Jeff Russel's Aerocanard just after I'd started building. I had maybe 10 minutres of stick time.

 

I was sold by the specs, features, capabilities and the look. The Cozy is perfect for my planned mission which is lots of long distance travel.

 

Yes, as Joe said, it's hard to match up a flying Cozy and an owner willing to share. I'm very much in that boat now, since my insurance quote (yes - I got a reasonable one from Falcon) requires 5 hours dual time in a Cozy IV. As of this moment I don't have any way to meet this requirement. The person who WAS going to let me have some time unfortunately lost his airplane (ironically to a failed Lycoming engine) the week before.

 

By the way, I expect to be at Rough River with my turbo rotary Cozy IV. Weather etc. permitting, I'll be happy to give rides to those who ask.

[mplafleur]

Hmmm John, when and where is Rough River?

[Dave Clifford]

Dust CLAIMS to have had a ride. No proof in it though!

[John Slade]

See http://www.roughriver.org/

 

Rough River has apparantly become THE place to go with a canard ever since Sun & Fun and OSH became overcrowded with everything except experimentals, over commercialized, relatively dangerous to approach in an airplane, and overly expensive to attend, even for the actual exhibitors - i.e. airplane builders.

 

I don't currently plan to fly to Sun & Fun, even if the plane is ready in time. I might change my mind at the last minute, but I doubt it.

[Cozy1200]

I must have plane got lucky.

 

I was given a ride at RR this past year by Dan & Lori Crugar. I didn't hardly have to ask. First time my wife had even seen a canard and up we go!

 

My suggestion. Go!!!! Chat it up with a builder and then ask for a ride. Carl Denk (builder) told me you have to ask. He will not offer because not everyone is confortable going up in an unknown plane.

 

So... as dust would say.

 

Enjoy the ride!!!

[mplafleur]

Looks like a 6-7 hour drive...

[Jim Sower]

<... I'm gonna try to get down to TN to meet Marc Z. on his monumental flight this year. I believe he's stopping at your place Jim... any room for extra visitors ...>

Sure. Always room for one more. 3 or 4 could camp in the living room if they're really good friends.

 

<... requires 5 hours dual time in a Cozy IV ...>

If you can talk them into substituting Velocity time for Cozy IV you've had a standing invitation for over six months. Cozy has to be easier to fly.

 

<... It isn't that easy to get a cozy ride ...>

Don't exagerate, Joe. Didn't I hear Nat offer you a ride? How far is Phoenix from Taos? Maybe 6 or 7 hrs by car? Will your Cessna go that far?

 

Flying a canard is not a big deal. I went to Sacramento to look at a Long-EZ, got maybe 30 min in the back seat (stick, no rudders or throttle, no forward visibility). I bought the airplane, loaded up my wife, jumped in and flew it home to Albany NY. These canards are as easy and honest an airplane as I have ever been in.

 

<... lost his airplane (ironically to a failed Lycoming engine) ...>

Did you ever see a final accident report on that?

[Joe Patterson]

READ THE FACTS

 

Jim, I am supprised at you. Why would you want to make something of this?

 

Nat Puffer did offer me a ride. Pay close attention to my wording (above) in my prior post.................AND THEN , pay close attention to Nats wording.

 

----------------------------------------

Nat Wrote: In early February

 

>PS: We will try to get you a ride here at a mutually satisfactory >date.

----------------------------------------

 

How much more fair, can I be?

Who has exagerated?

The real question was asked by the man at the "top of the thread.

 

Also.......... I DO NOT like how this puts NAT On The SPOT, He has given his @$$ off.

 

I saw my first Cozy last Thursday, and Grinned like a $hit Eatin Possum for over an hour, the fine gentleman offered to give me stick time once he could, that is good enough for me. I think it is quite amazing how many peolpe will spend $500 and 3,000 hours labor on something they have never riden in...That says alot, about the Numbers.

 

I will be happy to give rides, as soon as I get Spirit Rising in the air. And, I WILL MAKE IT SO.

 

PEACE OUT

[macleodm3]

Jim,

No need for camping in the living room... although that is a generous offer. My parents live in Morristown, TN, so I can stay with them. We'll work something out when the "trip" is scheduled.

 

It does surprise me how few buildrers have ridden in a Cozy, but I don't need a ride to KNOW. I just know.

[marbleturtle]

I went to see a completed Cozy IV on the south side of Atlanta. I keep forgetting the guy's name... its the person who finished his plane in about 18 months, one of the first Cozy IV's build. Anyway, he was cheerful and pleasant on that cool clear Saturday morning. He offered to let me try his Cozy on for size.

 

Now I was trying to be gracious and keep my shoes off the seat (which I now know can only be done if you take your shoes off) and slip my legs into the leg well. I sorta had a gymnist routine working... until I slipped. Now have you ever watched a gymnist competition? When a boy/girl goes running up a ramp and hits the pummel horse perfectly, it looks almost effortless. But if they slip or are off just a little, flailing body parts go cartwheeling through the air landing on the judges table wiping out drinks, ballots, glasses, and the occaisional bad hairpiece in violent directions turning the normally sober collection of esteemed internation judges into a pile of mommy wailing toddlers. Well, my fall was worse... at least more embarrassing. (I think I may have bent his fuel mixture lever. )

 

I apologized profusely. Suddenly the conversation changed from how beautiful the weather was to Cozy crashes and liability and the effects of epoxy fumes on the brain... and oh by the way, you really should look at building an RV4. (!@#$!@#%!!!) I tried to be polite and listen to what he had to say. I was a little uncomfortable when the topic then changed to how the information you get about Cozy's on the internet is ALL wrong and everyone or at least someone was going to die. I was wondering how to get out of THAT conversation, when a waterfall of fuel started spilling out of his NACA duct. The Sun had moved overhead during our "conversation" (ie: stern lecture) warming up the rear of the plane. He raced to pop the fuel caps and I made a polite escape.

 

A few weeks after that I met up with Greg Richter who I later found out owns Blue Mountain Avionics. BMA manufactures the most sought after EFIS systems for experimental aircraft. His operation is a hoot and a holler away from my stomping grounds. He has always been very gracious and very enthusiastic about his Cozy. I had a chance to meet up with him just as his Rotary engine was getting pulled. I told him about the other planes I was considering and he told me what he thought of them. Several of the planes we discussed were right there in the Copper Hill hangar getting BMA EFIS Ones installed.

 

That brings us to today. After 1 trip to OSHKOSH (sorry John, I meant EAA airventure!), and several Cozy visits... no rides yet! Now I talked to Greg again a few weeks ago and he said he should have his new JET engine installation finished and final wiring completed by... uh oh, today. Yep... you guessed it. I think my first ride in a Cozy is going to be a JET Cozy!

 

I asked him if he thought this would warp my sense of what to expect from a Cozy. He said yep... and added something to the effect of "who cares... lets go haul @ss!!!" So with more than a little trepidation, I'll be contacting him again soon. I may be in for the ride of my life.

 

On those moments I'm not clutching a paper bag up to my mouth, I'll try to remember to take a few pictures to share with the group.

[Joe Patterson]

Well, I have exaggerated in one of my statements,"It is easier to build a Cozy, than to get a ride in one"

 

The main point I wanted to make is:........."Do not let the WORST of situations Determine or Rule the Best of Situations."

 

If, The Best of Situations is "You Build a Cozy Aircraft".......Why would you want to keep this from ever happening because "I never got a ride in a Cozy aircraft".

------------------------------

Knotam Wrote:

 

>There are two things that are stopping me from building a Cozy.

------------------------------

This is how I felt last year, when I was looking to buy Cozy plans. I had requested a ride and was ready to deny myself "The Greater Of Two things Unless I first had The LESSER " Sometime around February of this year, I realized this logic didn't "Hold Water".

 

So, in my own inept way I am saying to [b Knotam:........ "Don't let getting a ride in a Cozy become an excuse not to build a Cozy, The proof of any plane is in the Stats. Suppose You base building a plane on a Ride with "The worlds worse Pilot", or "The Worlds Builder", don't blame it on the plane."

[cozybuildertobe]

Jim Sower Wrote

 

<... Cozy has to be easier to fly...>

 

 

Please Explain, These are the two I am concidering building. The Velocity appears easier to get in and out of for my wife with bad knees. So she was probably back seat in the Cozy while front seat in a Velocity, which is not a big deal, as compaired to the expense of the Velocity.

 

Bob

[Joe Patterson]

Bob,

 

I just sat in my first Cozy. I thought it was going to be difficult, It was NOT .It was extremly easy with the nose down. I think grandma could get in pretty easy.(I took my shoes off)

 

I am going to mount my Canopy to open forwards, this will make it easier(In my Opinion)to enter the front seat from both sides.

[cncdoc]

If I could get free rides in a Cozy, I wouldn't have to build one, wood eye?

[Jim Sower]

Originally posted by cozybuildertobe

Jim Sower Wrote

<... Cozy has to be easier to fly...>

 

Please Explain, These are the two I am concidering building. The Velocity appears easier to get in and out of for my wife with bad knees. So she was probably back seat in the Cozy while front seat in a Velocity, which is not a big deal, as compaired to the expense of the Velocity.

I should have said Cozy was more fun to fly.

 

My Velocity IO-360 (allegedly 205hp) doesn't perform anything like a Cozy or EZ. It won't make a yard over 150 kts (but I expect another 10-15 when I put wheel pants on it and clean up a bunch of oil cooler scoops and what have you. High DA takeoff can be dicey (I have to watch my weight very carefully at DA over 3000'-3500') so I can never travel west past Dakota - Kansas - central Texas. It climbs slow, turns slow and generally is not as crisp as an EZ or Cozy.

 

It is a lot easier to get in and out of, and when my wife saw those gull wing doors, the conversation was over.

 

Don't commit to anything until you've tried entrance/egress on Carl Denk's front hinge canopy. It should be easier, and might work for your wife.

[dust]

well, most here are really impressed with the cozy, and we all enjoy a velocity owner, cozy builder give his opinion.

 

enjoy the build

 

dust

[Norm M]

I was very fortunate to be given some dual time in a Cozy III the evening before first flight in my Cozy IV. I would like to be able to pass that generosity on to other builers that are close to flying their planes. These planes are not difficult to fly, but they are different than your typical trainers.

 

As far as joy rides for potential builders, I think there are several reasons why they are somewhat scarce:

 

There aren't that many Cozy IVs flying. The Cozy IIIs are even tighter in the front seat, and more limited for front weight capability. Especially if they were built with the Plans reccommended O-235. So unless you are a small person, it might be tough to get a ride in a Cozy III.

 

I just finished my plane. I have not done a lot of flying in the past 15 years. I am not sure that I want to go to an unknown airport, with unknown traffic, and then turn the controls over to another pilot? In another year, with more hours and cross country experience, then maybe. (But for now, If Slade wants to checkout he needs to come up here. Unless I decide to brave my way to SnF)

 

Marc's Tour of America is stopping in Waterloo the Sunday before Oshkosh. I have already offered to several builders that they can build parts in my shop around that time, just to help them get started and maybe do some flying. If you need something to do the week before Oshkosh, let me know. We can build some bulkheads, or turtlebacks, or canards... Or hotwire wings.

 

Regards-

Norm

 

Starting a crusade to help people see the light and begin building...

[knotam]

Well thanks for everyone's feedback.

 

I'd like to formally invite anyone with a flying Cozy to Clow International Airport (1C5) in Bolingbrook IL (~30 miles southwest of Chicago) for a free meal (Charlie's Restaurant located on the field) and a free top off (assuming 100LL or Jet A).

 

While you're here, I'd be more than happy to sit at any position in your plane for a ride.

 

Rough River looks like a good option too. Unfortunately, traveling with a then four month old might prove difficult.

[macleodm3]

"Unfortunately, traveling with a then four month old might prove difficult."

 

Naah! We had 8 month old down to Sun'n Fun last year, and it was a 14 hour drive. Its VERY EASY to travel from 1 month old to about 10 months. Well... easier than it is now at a year and a half. She loved the airshow. We live in the boonies, but every time I'm out with her and a plane or helicopter goes over, she points up and yells "Bah! Bah!" She usually finds em in the sky very quickly. She loves flying machines! I hope she loves flying in the family Cozy in a few years! Hope to meet you (all) at Rough River this year.

[Pitchyawroll]

All,

 

This is my first post. So if I need correction please feel free. I am quite new forums of any kind. I hope I get enough of it right. Already I can see I do not know how to use the smiles. And I have not idea what "tags" are.

I too would be very interested in a ride. But I think I agree on the concept of "why wait?". I live in the Pacific North west just 12 miles from the western most point of the continental U.S. (otherwise known as "Cape Blanco"). I would however settle for seeing someones shop and progress at whatever point. Currently I am still looking for excuses to fly here or there.

On the issue of having "dual time" who would be qualified to administer this dual time. It is not like there is a surplus of rated canard pilots. As compared to say Beechcraft or dare I say Cessna. ( Nothing against Cessna, all but 2-3 hours of my logged time is in Cessna Aircraft). So how does one aquire this qualifying time. Especially with the notion of Experimental aircraft and "commercial" use. I am using the term loosely. As the one who giving instruction would he/she just not accept pay? I apologize for how silly this may sound, but it is a real concern.

And how about this transition to an aircraft that I have never flown and currently not this lievel of performance in aircraft. To date I have not seen anything that even vaguely suggests things like landing speed, approach speed, Vx or Vy and such. Yeah yeah I know, don't worry about the the Vs and its permutations.

Well any way, I loof forward to some replies. And remember I am a tender "newbie". he he he

pitchyawroll

 

 

[Marc Zeitlin]

I too would be very interested in a ride...... I would however settle for seeing someones shop and progress at whatever point.

There are a number of builders and flyers in the Pac. NW. I'll be coming through there in mid-July - see:

 

http://www.cozybuilders.org/2004_Western_Trip/index.htm

 

If you want to get in touch with folks near you, you should join the COZY mailing list - first of all, you'll have access to more people flying COZY's than hang out here, plus you'll get a database with folks real names and locations to search through.

 

On the issue of having "dual time" who would be qualified to administer this dual time.....So how does one aquire this qualifying time. Especially with the notion of Experimental aircraft and "commercial" use.

You're asking a number of different questions here. If you want to take lessons and get instruction in a COZY, you'll need to find a CFI that's willing to teach in one. If you're talking about merely getting checked out in a COZY so that you meet insurance requirements to get insurance to fly one (presumably your own), then any PP can check you out in a COZY. I checked out Steve Brooks' down in FL in April, prior to his first flight in HIS plane - I gave him 1.5 hours and 5 or 6 takeoffs and landings in the left seat.

 

I'm not sure what you mean regarding "commercial" use - recently (a few years ago) the FAA changed the rules and allowed people to rent Experimental Amateur Built aircraft for the purpose of a checkout flight, but renting the aircraft and renting a CFI are two completely different things.

 

As the one who giving instruction would he/she just not accept pay?

When I give folks rides or check them out, I let them pay for the pro-rated shareable cost of the flight, per FAA regulations. I'm not a CFI, so I can't give instruction or get paid for it. I found a CFII that gave me my biennial review in my plane last August for $40, and is willing to give me instrument instruction in my plane for $40/hr.

 

And how about this transition to an aircraft that I have never flown and currently not this lievel of performance in aircraft.

Not a problem. I've never heard anyone say that it took them more than a couple hours to transition from a C-172 or Warrior into a COZY.

 

To date I have not seen anything that even vaguely suggests things like landing speed, approach speed, Vx or Vy and such.

Then you haven't seen the Owner's Manual or the web pages at:

 

http://www.cozybuilders.org/performance/

 

Enjoy.

[Pitchyawroll]

The only ride I've ever had in a moving Cozy was this afternoon, during taxi test of my own bird.

 

I did get (as in paid for) a short demo ride in Jeff Russel's Aerocanard just after I'd started building. I had maybe 10 minutres of stick time.

 

I was sold by the specs, features, capabilities and the look. The Cozy is perfect for my planned mission which is lots of long distance travel.

 

Yes, as Joe said, it's hard to match up a flying Cozy and an owner willing to share. I'm very much in that boat now, since my insurance quote (yes - I got a reasonable one from Falcon) requires 5 hours dual time in a Cozy IV. As of this moment I don't have any way to meet this requirement. The person who WAS going to let me have some time unfortunately lost his airplane (ironically to a failed Lycoming engine) the week before.

 

By the way, I expect to be at Rough River with my turbo rotary Cozy IV. Weather etc. permitting, I'll be happy to give rides to those who ask.

Where is this place? meaning where and when would plan a trip to Rough River KY? pitchyawrolll