count down

[dust]

john, could you move our bs from your finely crafted rotary count down, we are like two year olds and have messed it up

 

Sorry, once the bs started i cou;ldn't stop

enjoy the fiddlin

 

dust

[John Slade]

Sure. That ok with you, MT?

[Joe Patterson]

John,

 

I second the emotion........

 

Perhaps we should have started a post calledn "Count Down Support".

[marbleturtle]

I have no problem with that!

[Joe Patterson]

Hey John, I have been at study on your web-site........"Engine Install".

 

I was wondering what are the performance specs on *YOUR* 13B, I see you had it street ported, and Turbo........What kind of HP would it be as a Car engine, and is it different for Aircraft because of the PSRU????

 

 

You must be great at typing, I don't see how you can Keep up with your Build Progress. Of course to me , Typing is kind of new, and a chore.

 

Way to go again on your progress, and keep up the GREAT WORK.........Good-Day, Fine sir.

 

Joe

[John Slade]

I was wondering what are the performance specs on *YOUR* 13B, I see you had it street ported, and Turbo........What kind of HP would it be as a Car engine, and is it different for Aircraft because of the PSRU????

 

Mornin, Joe.

Yes it's a street ported turbo. But there are other important criteria which impact the power of a rotary which you and other might like to know about. Mine's a '93 3rd gen REW model (sometimes known as the FD) rather than the standard 2nd gen that most flyers are using. The REW has bigger intake and exhaust ports plus a few other minor mods like bigger oil galleries and a few lighter accessories. Also I used non-turbo rotors, so the compression ratio on mine is higher than the stock turbo. Finally it has 3mm seals rather than the stock 2mm. The only mofification it DOESNT have, that I would do if I were building an engine now is Tracy's new indestructible apex seals which are availablein 2 and 3mm. There's another (fairly rare) 13B engine out there called a Cosmo which, while still a 2 rotor, has even bigger ports. Bulent has one of these. There are also 3 rotor variations called 20B.

 

As for you're question on power - I've been told to expect somewhere around 260HP at 5600 rpm. I had the prop built to take 280 on cruise since it's eassier to cut a prop back than to extend its power absorbsion.

 

My typing isnt actually that good. I'm a four finger typist. The good news is that I type about as fast as i think....

[Joe Patterson]

Wow, aren't learning curves neat. Two months ago, I only had heard of "Rotary Engines", I had no concept of "WHAT" they were. I have researched and understood *EVERYTHING* you just said.....That is so Kewl.

 

Two years ago, I knew nothing about aircrafts at all, except that they flew....I didn't know the difference between a Cessna, and Piper, or a Bonanza.........

 

........Back to "Your Rotary".......

 

I would like, also, to hear more from Mike/Dust on this since I now have a better grip on Rotary Engines.

 

A month or so ago, You and Mike, and a few others were talking about your Rotary, Of course knowing anothing about Rotary Engines, it was "GREEK" to me......but I remember Mike saying asomething about using twin Turbos. Now having read about it, and as to *WHY*Low-Power / High-Power, My question is:

 

1. "Did you use twin Turbos?" (Which I believe you did not)

 

...........and................

 

2. "What was your reasoning?" ( I am wondering is there room under the Cowl for twins)

 

3. (Edited To ask) I forgot to ask, Is your Rotary a J-Spec?

 

I am not sure where to have this exchange(there is a Rotary Thread), as there is plenty to "chat" about. I am just following through on my thoughts about your progress.

 

I realize you are very busy with your Plane.So, Thanks ahead of time for your responce. But you can Take your time, I have at least 7 months.

 

John......I Hope all went well today, Joe

[John Slade]

>Wow, aren't learning curves neat.

That's the whole airplane building thing in a nutshell. Someone (could have been me) once likened it to a PhD course. You start off in grade school (or maybe high school for some). Graduation is the first flight. There are a lot of courses involved in the study.

 

1. "Did you use twin Turbos?" (Which I believe you did not)

No. The twin turbo engine is an excellent base, but the twin turbos themselves are very large and heavy with lots of controls (read complexity) for rapid accelleration and performance issues we dont meet in aircraft. The single stage '91 turbo (which I have) is simple, more than adequate for the job and much smaller/lighter. I haven't heard of anyone flying (or planning to fly) with twin turbos.

 

>I am wondering is there room under the Cowl for twins

I'm sure it would be tight, but there's no value in carrying that extra weight. Many want the turbo for "normalization" rather than pure power anyway.

 

>3. (Edited To ask) I forgot to ask, Is your Rotary a J-Spec?

I don't know what J spec means.

 

>I am not sure where to have this exchange(there is a Rotary Thread)

That would seem logical

Start a beginners questions thread over there if you like.

 

>I realize you are very busy with your Plane.

I took a break.

 

>I Hope all went well today

very well, thank you. I'll report my progress shortly.

 

Regards,

John

[Joe Patterson]

Japan specifications.

 

Seems they do not have to meet the same regulations as USA, or Europe. They also have to pull the engines after so many miles(30,000 I believe) and replace them with new. A lot of engines are shipped to the USA, and sold for bebuilds.

[John Slade]

Yep. That's where mine came from.

[Joe Patterson]

Hey John,

 

It is a good time to take out the gabage. Your "Count Down Thread", IMHO , would look better without my meaningless Feedback.

 

I think from now on, I will put my daily coments HERE.

 

It seems I will NOT be able to keep my Mouth(keyboard) shut.

[mplafleur]

I don't like this cleaning up BS. I actually like reading threads with the extra stuff. It gives the forum "life".

[CBarber]

Joe,

 

I love your starship federation logo. Did you create it and if so would you mind sharing it with me? (I hope you have it in a larger size in jpg or bmp). If not, where/how did you find it? I have had similiar thoughts, but I am not artisic at all.

 

As I think I have mentioned, my craft will have a decided "Trek" theme.....my "N" No. is 17010. When it comes to "Trek" my geek meter goes to Warp 10. TIA

 

I hope no one is anoyed by posting off topic (maybe should be private...I wanted to give public praise)...I will limit, but didn't think this justified a separarte thread.

 

Peace out my brother (from a un-hippie; but tolerant of all<g>)

 

All the best,

 

Chris

Make it so.

[Joe Patterson]

<glowing>

 

Thanks, Chris, your praise is very kind, and appreciated. I did create it.

 

I do have it in a 5inch X 5 inch size.........However, What you can not read on the smaller size is Around the Top;" United Federation of StarShips " and Around the Bottom ; "UFS Rising Spirit".......The name of my plane.

 

I would be glad to make one with the name of your plane on it, or if you prefer The Tail Number on the bottom.

 

 

This Thread, or "Not For Old Timers-Exterior Thread", is as good a place as any to chat about it.

 

I will go on record and say,."If anyone would like to join the Federation", I would be glad to make one for each.

 

Edited to Include link to larger Federation Badge:

http://groups.msn.com/TaosHouse/aroundthehouse.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=114

[CBarber]

Joe,

 

I would love to get one with my "N" No. on the bottome; N17010. Perhaps "Lone Star Velocity" would fit well (that would be swell).

 

I don't have a name yet. Enterprise and Voyerger or just too, too, too....something.

 

Thank you very much for your kind offer.

 

Chris

Engage

(rememeber to write UPN and/or sponsors to keep Enterprise on the air....still needs time to develop as a series, IMHO)

[John Slade]

Hey, Joe. I agree with Chris. Excellent work. You should make teeshirts.

 

I'd like to get a patch for my flight suit. At the bottom mine would "Cozy IV Turbo Rotary N96PM" - right side up, ideally.

[CBarber]

I would buy a t-shirt and a patch or a shirt with logo etc or two (Really like the idea of a patch and even a sticker). Maybe the bottom part could say something like "Canardzone Station", thus making it more sutiable for the masses.

 

We can be the envy of the other flying geeks...or geeks at large.

 

Joe, is it ok with you....how 'bout the rest of you guys and gals....bulk brings discounts.

 

All the best,

 

Chris

[Joe Patterson]

HHHhmmmmmmmmmmmmm.................Now I am thinking, I can't make t-Shirts on a computer.

 

Here is a sample. Chris, Notice I put a Velo on the Badge.

 

Hang On John, Your next.

 

Edited to add: If you want to make changes, Just ask. Once it is set up in the computer it is easy to change.

 

Edited again to add: Just E-Mail me with requests.Please. To make T-Shirts or Stickers or Badges, I will need to make a Large File, I am sure Money is no object to You.

[CBarber]

Joe,

 

You are the man. That is perfect. Love the colors, font, placement etc. Thanks for including a Velocity. I will place it on my website next time I update my pages. May go online to see about having a patch made.

 

Thank you very much.

 

All the best,

 

Chris

[Joe Patterson]

You sure are easy to please, that was the first edition/Rough sketch. Take your time think about it. I personally think the "Little Earth " could be done away with.

[Jim Sower]

Killer patch!!

Could you come up with one with my old call sign "Hostage Mike" on the rim? I'll look for a place that can make T-Shirt decals from a jpg.

 

You do honey work! I'm gonna recommend you to my friends!!

[mtorzews]

Hello Guys,

 

I don't know anything about planes (yet), but I know cars pretty well.

 

The drawback of turbochargers is they need exhaust gasses to create boost. (At or near idle the turbocharger is actually robbing power from engine.) As the gas pedal is pressed the engine begins to accelerate without the benefit of boost. The turbo begins to add power and increase the acceleration say at 3000 RPM. The time between idle and 3000 RPM is called turbo lag.

 

Now to make a lot of power at higher RPM a big turbo is needed. But big turbo = big mass = more exhaust gas required to turn it = longer turbo lag. A large turbo may not "spool" up until 3,500 or 4,000 RPM, but you might get 15 lbs or more of boost at redline.

 

To eliminate turbo lag a small turbo is needed. Small turbo = small mass = less exhaust to turn = less lag. It may spool up at lets 2500 RPM, but produce only 6 - 8 of boost.

 

A twin turbo combines the best of both. Both a small and large turbo feed the intake manifold. A small turbo is used to give a small boost at low rpm to elimate lag. The big turbo comes on line at higher RPM for peak HP.

 

Twin turbos are great in cars, but they add weight, complexity and failure modes. In airplanes they are useless. Airplanes fly at a constant RPM. There isn't a need to reduce turbo lag. A single large turbo would be a much better choice.

 

Now I have heard of the idea of what I'll call "dual" turbos. Two large turbos can be used to feed seperate intake manifolds. In a 13B each of the rotors are fed from seperate turbos and manifolds. In a opposed 4 each side of the block gets its own dedicated turbo. In my oppinion this is also a bad idea, because balancing the turbos for smooth operation would be difficult. Also if boost is lost on one of the turbos but not the other they resulting vibration could damage the engine.

 

Just my 2 cents from a car guy trying to turn into a plane guy.

 

Mike T

[marbleturtle]

Is anyone else going through John's daily status report withdrawel?

[dust]

YES, ENJOYABLE READING

 

enjoy the build

 

dust

[mplafleur]

I need a fix! I need a fix!