Center control stick for Cozy IV

[codensr]

Just wondering if anyone knows about any cozys built this way? I am a left handed and need to be able to write & fly at the same time. Any thoughts on this problem? Could set in the right seat but not good for ego or seeing instruments.

[Marc Zeitlin]

Quote

Originally posted by codensr

Just wondering if anyone knows about any cozys built this way? I am a left handed and need to be able to write & fly at the same time. Any thoughts on this problem? Could set in the right seat but not good for ego or seeing instruments.

Right seat is the right answer. Put the instruments on the right - there's nothing anywhere that says the pilot has to be on the left. IIRC, there's at least one COZY that's flying with this configuration.

With respect to a center stick, you'd have to figure it all out for yourself, and ALL the controls would have to be completely re-engineered. It's a BIG job.

[dust]

if i remember right, the boomerang was a right seated piloted airplane.

[Wayne Hicks]

There's NOT alot of free space between the two people in the front seats. With the controls on the keel line, I'm not sure you'd get enough side to side throw without bruising your thigh or that of your passenger. 🙂

Put everything on the right side.

Wayne Hicks

[codensr]

Every thing on the right side sounds like good advise and simpler than a stick modification. The down side my be poor visability for left hand patterns. Also the resale value my not be as hight. I will live with these small negatives.

Thanks for the input.

[No4]

Yes the Rutan Boomerang is right seat PIC actualy has each seat not parallel but slightly behind, creating a staggered effect, more space for everyone and more aerodynamic; tiny dials and very basic panel to save weight, the rest is run on a laptop. Good luck trying to engineer it though.

Why not put all the instruments right in the middle, and fly from the right?

[codensr]

Why not put all the instruments right in the middle, and fly from the right?

 

This could be a solution ,however not sure about instrument scan for IFR work? I owned a Cessna with non standard instruments panal, worked out OK with many hour in the aircraft.

[CBarber]

Even though I am using the yoke option on my Velocity, the standard Velocity configuration uses a center stick. The center stick does not take up all that much room or use that much throw, about 4 inches. I don't know how that would work in a Cozy (however, I recapture that four inches having the yokes, giving my more butt room, and not needing the full height keel). I wanted the yoke sense I concede I fly with my left hand and do other stuff with my right (write, tune freqs, pick on my S/O). My yoke uses additional panel room, but I hope it will not be a big deal.

You may be able to look at the control system chapter for the Velo and get an idea of what may be possible. At least as a starting point.

All the best,

Chris

[Wayne Hicks]

The Velocity has a center keel that is much higher and wider than the center console in the Cozy. You "could" build the center console higher in the Cozy. That's no problem (?) to do that. But you'd also need to make it wider too to account for the side to side arc that the bottom of the control swings through for full aileron deflection. I haven't measured, but the swing is more than the 2 inch width provided by the Cozy center console.

....Wayne Hicks

[rhofacker]

...just thought I'd trow in some observations

I've never gotten a ride in a Cozy, but any way...

I did get a very brief ride in a Lancair in the right seat, side stick controler in the right hand. This was very comfortable to fly, but I was just a little bit concerned about using my right hand to copy clearances, fold maps, etc. My good ol' Bonanza has a throw over yoke. I'd always thought this was a good compromise: when I'm pic, I can fly with either hand and still have a hand free to set radios, fold maps, copy clearances, etc. When my wife flies we just throw the yoke over and she flies... But, I was supprised to learn my wife is not real comfortable with this arrangement! She worries about not being able to get the yoke back to the other side or getting stuck part way over. She's never once mentioned it to me... She told a friend she was thinking of buying a dual yoke conversion for me for Christmas .

One thing I really liked about the Lancair side stick was the unobstructed view of all of the panel space. I think this would be true in the Cozy as well. The down side is the reduced accessiblity to the control stick by the other hand. This may not be an issue in the Cozy if the plane is stable enough that you can just release the controls for a reasonable length of time even in turbulence.

This is just one (more) reason I'd like to get a ride in a cozy and talk to some experienced Cozy pilots befor I commit to cockpit arrangements (i.e. PIC on left or right, panel lay out, etc., etc.) So, all you experienced pilots out there: how long are you comfortable steering with your feet without your hand on the stick? in turbulence?

One of the claimed benifits of the canard configuration is extreemly good pitch stability even in turbulence. I can't remember if the CAFE fligh test addressed this or not. I'll want to think these human factors kinds of questions through carefully later on when I get closer to making the choices That's gonna be a while...

[Shane Crawford]

I'm right handed and would prefer the stick in my right hand... I would have thought the left hand stick would have been perfect for left handers.

[Kent Ashton]

11 hours ago, Shane Crawford said:

I'm right handed and would prefer the stick in my right hand... I would have thought the left hand stick would have been perfect for left handers.

I set my Cozy up for right-seat pilot (I am right-handed) but I wouldn't do it again.  It just makes it harder to fly left-hand patterns--looking through the back window or banking to check the runway.  I used to own a left-hand Cozy III and was perfectly happy flying it with the left hand.

[CBarber]

I'm considering the left side stick conversion from the yokes in my Velo  I cant complain about the yokes.  They work well.  Reality is, I cant find the time to get the new engine installed, let alone modifying something that works.  I have noted I almost alway fly with my left hand on the yoke as my right hand is often on the throttle.  The yoke accommodates that well even though a side stick would free up some panal space. My latest panel mod has a 7 inch Dynon over the yoke and a 10 inch dynon in the middle (with enough room or a second 7 inch Dynon over the right yoke.  I'm also a right handed person, and even though I'm not instrument rated, I like having the freedom of my right hand.

Even though there may be a cool factor of the Velocity standard center stick, it never appealed to me. Those who use it seem to think the plane is stable enough that momentarily removing their hand from the stick to jot down a clearance....or whatever, is not a big issue.  Just bugs me a bit.....

[macleodm3]

What engine is recommended by Velocity for your airplane?  Have you considered buying one of those and having it installed?

I think the yokes in the Velocity are nice.... get that engine in and fly it like you stole it.

[RSD]

Going the other way - how easy would it be to convert an E-Racer to dual side sticks?

[macleodm3]

34 minutes ago, RSD said:

Going the other way - how easy would it be to convert an E-Racer to dual side sticks?

There are no plans or kit to do this, so it would need to be drawn up on paper first.  It wouldn't be easy, but if building an E-racer and including this from the beginning, it should be something that could be accomplished.

On the e-racer... there will be some issues to overcome.  I may be wrong but I think that plans are not currently for sale and that you also need a set of Long-EZ plans to fill in the blanks because the plans do not include all the details needed.  Major parts, such as landing gear, are no longer available.  Have you tried searches online such as "E-racer vs Cozy" and "E-racer vs Long-EZ"?   There are some good discussions about how to get started with an E-racer project.

Edited August 11, 2019 by macleodm3

[Jon Matcho]

On 8/11/2019 at 8:46 AM, RSD said:

Going the other way - how easy would it be to convert an E-Racer to dual side sticks?

I would say about as involved as modifying a Cozy IV to use a center stick, which reminds me of another related post on this subject.

[RSD]

On 8/11/2019 at 11:19 PM, macleodm3 said:

On the e-racer... there will be some issues to overcome.  I may be wrong but I think that plans are not currently for sale and that you also need a set of Long-EZ plans to fill in the blanks because the plans do not include all the details needed.  Major parts, such as landing gear, are no longer available.  Have you tried searches online such as "E-racer vs Cozy" and "E-racer vs Long-EZ"?   There are some good discussions about how to get started with an E-racer project.

Plans are very much still for sale from Shirl Dickey, and landing gear is available from Rock at http://www.eraceraircraft.com/

[macleodm3]

7 hours ago, RSD said:

Plans are very much still for sale from Shirl Dickey, and landing gear is available from Rock at http://www.eraceraircraft.com/

That is great news!  I was quoting a post from 2009... thank you for correcting my false statements.