John Slade Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 How about some avionics advice? I'm looking for an affordable 6.25 wide panel mount moving map GPS system. Is there such a thing? Quote I can be reached on the "other" forum http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Zeitlin Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 Originally posted by John Slade How about some avionics advice? I'm looking for an affordable 6.25 wide panel mount moving map GPS system. Is there such a thing? Depends on your definition of "affordable". If you're only going for VFR, I'd just get a handheld with a mount - you can still couple it to your autopilot (if you have one) and the maps are just as good (if not better, especially on the Garmin 195/196). If you really need IFR, you have to decide whether you need approach or just enroute, as the price will increase substantially with increasing capability. Confused enough? :-). Quote Marc J. Zeitlin Burnside Aerospace marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu www.cozybuilders.org copyright © 2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Slade Posted April 12, 2003 Author Share Posted April 12, 2003 Yea. Affordable is a variable. Sorry. Let's say < 3k. Did I mention that I'd like it to have COM also? So far I have one ICOM A200. I'll start off VFR, but I'd like to complete my IFR training in the plane, then use it IFR approach if necessary. Ideally it would be "expandable/upgradeable". I'll get a handheld GPS and Nav/Com as a backup. My initial thoughts here are the Garmin 196 and the ICOM A 23. I'd appreciate comments on these and other handhelds from people who've used various models. I guess what I'm looking for in the panel is a REALLY cheap Garmin 530. Quote I can be reached on the "other" forum http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Zeitlin Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 Originally posted by John Slade Yea. Affordable is a variable. Sorry. Let's say < 3k. Did I mention that I'd like it to have COM also? So far I have one ICOM A200. I'll start off VFR, but I'd like to complete my IFR training in the plane, then use it IFR approach if necessary. Ideally it would be "expandable/upgradeable". For less than $3K you won't get IFR. You could get a King KLX-135A GPS/COM for $2600, but it's not IFR and the moving map is crap. The cheapest IFR setup is something like a UPSAT GX-60 for about $5100, and the map is still crappier than the Garmin 195/196 See: http://www.gulf-coast-avionics/ I guess what I'm looking for in the panel is a REALLY cheap Garmin 530. Aren't we all..... Quote Marc J. Zeitlin Burnside Aerospace marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu www.cozybuilders.org copyright © 2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Slade Posted April 12, 2003 Author Share Posted April 12, 2003 What about the Garmin GNC 300XL - The map may be small, but it's IFR and it'll do for now. Anyone have any experience of this unit? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors /ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2410252740&category=26436 Quote I can be reached on the "other" forum http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwillis Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 John, have you checked out this site? You could buy any size screen you like. http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/EFIS.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Slade Posted April 13, 2003 Author Share Posted April 13, 2003 Build my own? I dont think so. You obviously havent read my experience with the RST intercom. Besides. Enough learning curves and experimentation already. Its time for this bird to FLY! Quote I can be reached on the "other" forum http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LargePrime Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 following up on jwillis' post http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/efis2.html part two is much more interesting... Quote We know who you are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 I seem to recall that IFR systems need to boot up in 4 secs or less, am I right? If so, hows he gonna do that with off the shelf hardware? I recently build a moving map tablet GPS for my car, but I'm getting rid of it now. I had two problems: 1) Boot up on 98Lite was way too slow 2) The tablet laid in my lap, so to use it I had to take my eyes off the road. It took about 10 seconds to realize this thing I had been working on for a week was useless to me Of course, in a plane it's a totally different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeC Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 I think the way to go is going to be the tablet pc. What I envision is being able to snap the PC in an out of the panel when not in use. The tablet PC's now can use Windows XP tablet edition and are just about as powerful as a notebook computer. The nice thing is that with a snap in and out installation I could use it for other purposes when I am not flying. The other nice thing is there is no need for a keyboard or mouse because interfacing can be done with a stylus pencil like the ones used in the smaller note pad computers. I could also install a 70 dollar DVD Drive in the panel and watch in-flight movies and play music . Jake Here is an expample of one of the smaller tablet PCs. The come bigger if you like. Quote www.homebuiltairplanes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Zeitlin Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 You guys are missing John's point. He wants an IFR capable setup. NONE of the homegrown units (including the BlueMountain Avionics one) are approved for IFR usage. John will HAVE to purchase an approved unit from one of the larger manufacturers. He seems to have found a used 300XL for a not unreasonable price. Quote Marc J. Zeitlin Burnside Aerospace marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu www.cozybuilders.org copyright © 2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Slade Posted April 14, 2003 Author Share Posted April 14, 2003 Well, yes and no. I'll be VFR for the first 6 months or so, so I've been looking at something like a Garmin 295 or anywhere map on an Ipaq, with a view to using this as backup when I get my REAL IFR system. Jake, Can you send me a link to the tablet specs? Quote I can be reached on the "other" forum http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeC Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 John, Here is one example of a Tablet PC that might make a good candidate. It's got a 10.4 inch screen and it would look quite nice sitting in my dream panel. There are a bunch brands and models out there and many more are coming to market soon. It's a relatively new market so the prices are still up there a bit. This particular one is 1600 bucks but I would expect the prices will be coming down before too long. I can afford to wait but I know you are looking for something now so it might be a bit steep. In my opinion we are going to see a lot of homebuilts with this type of display in the next few years. http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10340632&loc=1977 Does an instrument like this need to go through FAA cert before it can be used IFR or is it the Software, or both? Thanks. Jake Quote www.homebuiltairplanes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Zeitlin Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Originally posted by JakeC Here is one example of a Tablet PC that might make a good candidate...... This tablet PC uses a TFT display, which would be really great, as long as you only fly at night. You won't be able to see it during the daytime, in sunlight. Daylight readable displays are expensive - we've been trying to find one to put in our difibrillator, and it's not easy to find an affordable one. Ask Greg at BM what they use for a visible display, and how much it costs..... Does an instrument like this need to go through FAA cert before it can be used IFR or is it the Software, or both? Thanks. It's both, and it's not simple. None of the newer, smaller vendors (Blue Mountain, PC Flight Systems, Dynon, etc.) have tried to get approval because it's expensive and lengthy. You don't have a chance on a homegrown system. Sorry...... Quote Marc J. Zeitlin Burnside Aerospace marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu www.cozybuilders.org copyright © 2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Slade Posted April 15, 2003 Author Share Posted April 15, 2003 >You don't have a chance [of IFR certification] on a homegrown system Right. And the other consideration is Windows. I can't IMAGINE the FAA ever certifying something based on Windows or a derivative, and I sure wouldnt want to be in a cloud with Bill gates telling me there's a system failure...ok? The Ipaq seems like a good alternative for VFR navigation. I think the screen is daylight viewable, but I just can't see using a stylus in turbulence. Until I splurge on a Garmin 430 or 530 I guess it's a toss-up between the Garmin 195, the Garmin 295 or the Ipaq running some nav software. I'm leaning toward the 195. Any opinions? Quote I can be reached on the "other" forum http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeC Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 It's both, and it's not simple. None of the newer, smaller vendors (Blue Mountain, PC Flight Systems, Dynon, etc.) have tried to get approval because it's expensive and lengthy. You don't have a chance on a homegrown system. Sorry......Don't be sorry, just wondering. Thanks for the info. Jake Quote www.homebuiltairplanes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeC Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Oh yeah, the screen is also a touch screen. Not much different than smashing buttons I guess. And the other consideration is Windows. I can't IMAGINE the FAA ever certifying something based on Windows or a derivative, and I sure wouldn’t want to be in a cloud with Bill gates telling me there's a system failure...ok? Yeah, I guess that is a consideration. I wonder if it would support other Operating Systems. XP isn't nearly as bad as 98 or ME that’s for sure, but it isn't perfect either. Doesn't matter much if you can't read the display I guess. Maybe a pull out shade or something . Jake Quote www.homebuiltairplanes.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Zeitlin Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Originally posted by John Slade ......I guess it's a toss-up between the Garmin 195, the Garmin 295 or the Ipaq running some nav software. I'm leaning toward the 195. Any opinions? I've got a 195 - works great. Don't really need the color, although it would certainly be nice. You can get them cheap on EBAY now that the 196 is out. Quote Marc J. Zeitlin Burnside Aerospace marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu www.cozybuilders.org copyright © 2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Slade Posted April 15, 2003 Author Share Posted April 15, 2003 the screen [iPAQ] is also a touch screen. Not much different than smashing buttons A lot different. I played with one at Sun & Fun. You have to be pretty accurate with the tip of you're fingernail. Not good when you're looking for the nearest runway in a hurry. XP isn't nearly as bad as 98 or ME You're right. XP is much better. It only crashes about twice a week. I think I'll go with a Garmin 195 or 196 Quote I can be reached on the "other" forum http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleturtle Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 The new tablet PC's are larger and brighter than the iPAC type handhelds. They are specifically designed with high-tech industrial applications in mind so outdoor lighting or fat fingers won't be a problem. As far as XP goes... stick with hardware that is on the Hardware Compatibility List and don't use cheep or freeware applications that frequently don't know how to manage memory. I work with 10 level 1 programmers and even they can't crash XP... not that I'm going to show them how. I'm working on a Cozy in reverse. I'm working on my moving map GPS application now with micro-controllers for autopilot, and tablet PC based glass cockpit. I'm also reading on ideas for propulsion to try out soon. (I just can't let go of that twin duct fan idea!) I won't be able to build a plaine until I first get my house built. A tablet PC is a valid format for a navigation and control system, but would certification be REQUIRED in order to use it for IFR? How would that differ from using our home built airplanes for IFR flight even though they are not certified? Quote This ain't rocket surgery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Slade Posted April 15, 2003 Author Share Posted April 15, 2003 >I work with 10 level 1 programmers and even they can't crash XP I can do it with Microsoft's own Word. I don't think any Windows OS is sufficiently robust for IFR. VFR, no problem. Quote I can be reached on the "other" forum http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleturtle Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 That's a neat trick... is it Word from Office XP? Quote This ain't rocket surgery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Slade Posted April 16, 2003 Author Share Posted April 16, 2003 Nope. 2000. I'm not giving them more money unless I absolutely have to. You think they put the crash in there to make me upgrade? Anyway, back to airplanes. Quote I can be reached on the "other" forum http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dust Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 OSX Quote maker wood dust and shavings - foam and fiberglass dust and one day a cozy will pop out, enjoying the build i can be reached at http://www.canardcommunity.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbleturtle Posted April 16, 2003 Share Posted April 16, 2003 If you have Intenet Explorer, just use the Tools menu and then Windows update to get all the patches your system needs. It may fix the problem you are having. I have a mix of Operating Systems and Products back to Win98 for 120 users without problems with crashing. Back to Aircrafts... I'll ask again. Is it required that you use Certified Instruments to fly IFR even if our planes are NOT certified? Anybody know? Quote This ain't rocket surgery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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