tim2542 Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Has anyone found a source for raw materials ie Glass / Epoxy other than ASS or Wicks ? I would like to know if the prices we pay are in line with the industry. If I can find another source and VERIFY that the materials are the same it might be an eye opener. For example BFG industries makes a large variety of fiberglass weaves and most are available by the roll at < $1.00 per yard. The problem is ascertaing the suitability of the product. I wonder, does the industry use a standard nomenclature for specifing products? Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dust Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Don't say a word clifford, don't say a word, I don't want to hear it, especially here in public. I don't want to hear about the two canards we had to scrap because the uni wouldn't make the bend for the sheer web, please don't say a word on this very public forum and embarrass me. BTW I know a place with a great price. Quote maker wood dust and shavings - foam and fiberglass dust and one day a cozy will pop out, enjoying the build i can be reached at http://www.canardcommunity.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Clifford Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Too late Mike. The cats out of the bag and the canary is going to sing!! After I get some sleep first,,,,,,,,. Quote Dave Clifford "The Metal Man" Musketeer Vise grip hands and Micrometer eyes!! Cozy MKIV Plans #656 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Clifford Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Tim, The answer to your question is yes and no. NO. Do not substitute any fiberglass cloth specified in the plans with a different manufacture for any structural parts. The weights, weaves, strengths, and fiber orientation called out in the plans have been thoroughly tested for the Cozy. The glass specified was designed for Rutan's specifications. The fibers are treated with I believe is Volan, to allow thorough wetting of the fibers. You can see when a particular strand of fibers did not get treated, as it WILL NOT wet out, no matter how hard you try. We are frugal builders building #591 and #656 together at the same time, so when Mike found a distributor for Hexel RA7715 UNI at a couple dollars a yard cheaper than ACS or Wicks, we jumped at it and bought a full roll. It came in the same box as what we had gotten before from Wicks. When we were wrapping the glass over the leading edge of our gorgeous canards sitting side by side on the table, we could not get the glass to make the bend and stay down no matter what we did. It would pop up after a few minutes. Nothing in the archive about this problem and with a phone call to Nat, he suggested we try sewing pins. It was the end of a frustrating day, Mike and Thane left and after supper, I went up to Wal-Mart and bought a box of 500 pins, Came home and spent the next 2 hours pinning the cloth down using everyone!! The next day, the glass was cured and had popped up over the leading edge!! Both canards were junk and could not be salvaged!! The band saw got a work out chopping up both canards. Narrowing down the problem, we concluded that the glass was the problem, I ordered one yard of RA7715 from Wicks for comparison purposes. Both looked the same, weighed the same, felt the same, ect.. It was only when we compared the fabrics under magnification and picked the fibers apart with dental picks,(thanks Thane), and counted fibers did we learn the very slight difference in weave. We had probably bought a rejected run!! Lost two months rebuilding the canards along with the expense, and still have this cloth laying around. We will give you a REALLY good deal if you want it!! We have saved a good amount of money buying our MGS resin and hardener from the importer/distributor in Toronto Canada by picking it up there in person. If you want to save money, you can. Just be carefull. One suggestion is to wait until Oshkosh and place your order their at the Wicks booth. You get a show discount which adds up on a large order. The savings may even pay for your trip there!! Good luck. Dave:) Quote Dave Clifford "The Metal Man" Musketeer Vise grip hands and Micrometer eyes!! Cozy MKIV Plans #656 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rui Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Clifford, Thanks for the info. I have been looking around for an alternate glass supplier (based here in Canada), but after hearing your story I think I'll do the right thing and buy from Wicks. I would like to encourage any other similar stories, both good and bad from experienced builders. I have bought the plans and am in the process of setting things up to start building. Advice like this is invaluable to people such as me. Quote Rui Lopes Cozy MkIV S/N: 1121 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Slade Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 Dave's right. Stick to the plans spec for the basic materials. I ran out of 3/8 foam when I was making the rear seats so I used the hot wire to cut 3/8 slices of blue wing foam. Big mistake. I've had trouble with those seats ever since. Reglassed one of them twice and will probably have to rebuild it eventually. How come you had to scrap the canards, guys? Almost anything made with epoxy can be fixed. Quote I can be reached on the "other" forum http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dust Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 spoken by a man who threw out a canard. Quote maker wood dust and shavings - foam and fiberglass dust and one day a cozy will pop out, enjoying the build i can be reached at http://www.canardcommunity.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Slade Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 spoken by a man who threw out a canard Well yes... this is true. Can't keep any secrets, can I? At least I threw it out before glassing anything. The foam was screwed up. Once the foam is cut right I'd have thought you could sand down the offending glass and repair it - no? Quote I can be reached on the "other" forum http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Clifford Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 We attempted to remove the bad glass with bad results. And I stand corrected, it was the shear web and not the leading edge we had trouble with on this situation. They WERE a mess!!! Quote Dave Clifford "The Metal Man" Musketeer Vise grip hands and Micrometer eyes!! Cozy MKIV Plans #656 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dust Posted February 24, 2003 Share Posted February 24, 2003 those sheer webs are thick, way more work to repair than just starting over, plus we would have had to remove those 500 pins dave stuck in Quote maker wood dust and shavings - foam and fiberglass dust and one day a cozy will pop out, enjoying the build i can be reached at http://www.canardcommunity.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim2542 Posted February 25, 2003 Author Share Posted February 25, 2003 Thanks for the replies guys (hey that rymes!) I had to ask as one of my best /worst attributes is I'm CHEAP. But I'm not totaly stupid either and recognize good advise when I hear it. Thanks again! Tim #1104 Waiting on Wicks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LargePrime Posted February 27, 2003 Share Posted February 27, 2003 http://www.infinityaerospace.com/Glass.htm Quote We know who you are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.