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"Unapproved" Parts


tim2542

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Has anyone found a source for raw materials ie Glass / Epoxy other than ASS or Wicks ? I would like to know if the prices we pay are in line with the industry. If I can find another source and VERIFY that the materials are the same it might be an eye opener. For example BFG industries makes a large variety of fiberglass weaves and most are available by the roll at < $1.00 per yard. The problem is ascertaing the suitability of the product. I wonder, does the industry use a standard nomenclature for specifing products?

Tim

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Don't say a word clifford, don't say a word, I don't want to hear it, especially here in public. I don't want to hear about the two canards we had to scrap because the uni wouldn't make the bend for the sheer web, please don't say a word on this very public forum and embarrass me. BTW I know a place with a great price.

maker wood dust and shavings - foam and fiberglass dust and one day a cozy will pop out, enjoying the build

 

i can be reached at

 

http://www.canardcommunity.com/

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Tim,

The answer to your question is yes and no. NO. Do not substitute any fiberglass cloth specified in the plans with a different manufacture for any structural parts. The weights, weaves, strengths, and fiber orientation called out in the plans have been thoroughly tested for the Cozy. The glass specified was designed for Rutan's specifications. The fibers are treated with I believe is Volan, to allow thorough wetting of the fibers. You can see when a particular strand of fibers did not get treated, as it WILL NOT wet out, no matter how hard you try. We are frugal builders building #591 and #656 together at the same time, so when Mike found a distributor for Hexel RA7715 UNI at a couple dollars a yard cheaper than ACS or Wicks, we jumped at it and bought a full roll. It came in the same box as what we had gotten before from Wicks. When we were wrapping the glass over the leading edge of our gorgeous canards sitting side by side on the table, we could not get the glass to make the bend and stay down no matter what we did. It would pop up after a few minutes. Nothing in the archive about this problem and with a phone call to Nat, he suggested we try sewing pins. It was the end of a frustrating day, Mike and Thane left and after supper, I went up to Wal-Mart and bought a box of 500 pins, Came home and spent the next 2 hours pinning the cloth down using everyone!! The next day, the glass was cured and had popped up over the leading edge!! Both canards were junk and could not be salvaged!! The band saw got a work out chopping up both canards. Narrowing down the problem, we concluded that the glass was the problem, I ordered one yard of RA7715 from Wicks for comparison purposes. Both looked the same, weighed the same, felt the same, ect.. It was only when we compared the fabrics under magnification and picked the fibers apart with dental picks,(thanks Thane), and counted fibers did we learn the very slight difference in weave. We had probably bought a rejected run!! Lost two months rebuilding the canards along with the expense, and still have this cloth laying around. We will give you a REALLY good deal if you want it!! We have saved a good amount of money buying our MGS resin and hardener from the importer/distributor in Toronto Canada by picking it up there in person. If you want to save money, you can. Just be carefull. One suggestion is to wait until Oshkosh and place your order their at the Wicks booth. You get a show discount which adds up on a large order. The savings may even pay for your trip there!! Good luck. Dave:)

Dave Clifford

"The Metal Man" Musketeer

Vise grip hands and Micrometer eyes!!

 

Cozy MKIV Plans #656

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Clifford,

 

Thanks for the info. I have been looking around for an alternate glass supplier (based here in Canada), but after hearing your story I think I'll do the right thing and buy from Wicks.

 

I would like to encourage any other similar stories, both good and bad from experienced builders. I have bought the plans and am in the process of setting things up to start building. Advice like this is invaluable to people such as me.

Rui Lopes

Cozy MkIV S/N: 1121

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Dave's right. Stick to the plans spec for the basic materials.

I ran out of 3/8 foam when I was making the rear seats so I used the hot wire to cut 3/8 slices of blue wing foam. Big mistake. I've had trouble with those seats ever since. Reglassed one of them twice and will probably have to rebuild it eventually.

 

How come you had to scrap the canards, guys? Almost anything made with epoxy can be fixed.

I can be reached on the "other" forum http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net

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spoken by a man who threw out a canard

Well yes... this is true. Can't keep any secrets, can I? :D

 

At least I threw it out before glassing anything. The foam was screwed up. Once the foam is cut right I'd have thought you could sand down the offending glass and repair it - no?

I can be reached on the "other" forum http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net

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