Forum existence Meta Discussion

[Marc Zeitlin]

So I've been monitoring this CCF for a few months now, first as a visitor and for the last month or two as a member. This is my first post. What I'm looking for is feedback regarding the relative appeal of this forum vs. the canard_aviators and COZY mailing lists.

 

I guess mostly what I'm looking for is an understanding of what advantages this forum has over the two mailing lists - other than the emoticons, I'm having a difficult time seeing any advantage whatsoever.

 

What I DO see, though, is a lot of repeat discussions (from a historical standpoint - witness the paint color one) in which incorrect information is disseminated and not corrected. I see many newbies asking questions about anti-ice systems, pressurization, and turbines. These questions are valid ones to ask, but the depth of knowledge vis-a-vis responses to them just doesn't seem to be available on this forum (or else those who CAN respond knowledgeably don't seem to do so, possibly because responding on THREE fora is a lot more work than responding on one, or even two).

 

I'm not trying to disparage this forum or it's methodology - if there ARE major advantages, then maybe the members of the other two fora should be migrated (slowly or quickly) over to this forum. If, however, there AREN'T major advantages, then it would seem to me that it would better serve the members of this forum, especially the non-builder newbies, to join one or both of the other fora instead.

 

So, what do people find are the advantage (or disadvantages) of this forum vs. a traditional mailing list? Why are people interested in being on two or even three discussion fora that have 80-90% topic overlap?

 

Thanks for any insight.

[dust]

Mark, you are a very intelligent man and if you had not created the listserve mail group, you would see the answer. Pride of ownership is clouding your judgement. Thats OK by me, as you put together quite a good group, but the time for the email group is, in my opinion over.

 

Short and sweet.

 

The more builders there are, the better it is for all builders, suppliers stay in business and make the few parts we can't make. This forum is easier for someone to get to, it is not joined it is viewed.

 

The forum is easier to navigate, has less clutter and the history of a thread and the entire forum is at your fingertips.

 

Just use your professional judgement, pretend that you wanted to start your group today and you would pick this tool.

[Joe Cygan]

Interesting that you brought this up.In my opinion you have to take forum lists for what they are,internet forum lists.I think you trying to best utilize the forums are a good thing.But remember, people come in all shapes and sizes and everything that is put out there should be taken as entertainment only until proven.You have touched on subjects that have not been dealt with in full detail and you seemed to be bummed about it.I personally think that the scope and detail of such subjects can not be possibly reached in a mailing list unless the people are one hundred percent serious and personally that does not happen.Also,much of the discussions that have been taking place here on this forum are in the "Coffee House".What might help is creating a topic room like"serious only stuff".Since we are on the subject,lets talk about participation.Like all forums you have several individuals that post all the time and most do not.One of the biggest bummers about forum lists is, the lack of participation and that sucks.You mentioned that you have been observing for a few months,why not jump in.You mentioned repeat discussions and a particular paint topic where there was incorrect information that was disseminated and not corrected.Well,if you have the information,why not let us know?

[Frank]

I do feel this forum gives people a greater feeling of participation and control than a mailing list would.

 

For example one mailing list I'm currently a member of sends out 20-30 emails per night containing insights from seemingly unrelated topics, perusing through the trash till you can find any relevant information can be quite disheartening.

 

The thing with forums, you have to become accustom to using them. The option is there to show all previous topics from the forums creation but its default view shows only recent ones, as a result you will get repeat discussions from people new to forums.

 

Paint Finishes???? Doesn't that have its own chapter in the build manual (Chapter 25, I think) and there are chapter specific conversation areas on the forum but most folk dont get familiarised with the forum so just dump everything in 'Coffee House'

[Rui]

From a purely technical point of view this forum is much more accessible. I can look at new posts from anywhere that I have internet access. This is not the case with the mail list.

 

Also, I have used Maddy's seach engine for old mailing list topics and don't like it much. In using it I wasn't easily able to tell whether a better search term would help me finding what I was looking for or whether the information just wasn't there. In addition to giving individual messages that match a search criteria it should also give a link to the thread. A fully webified, searchable representation of the past mailing list articles would be really nice.

 

Why haven't I posted to the mailing list, I really don't know. I guess its just that this forum is easier to access. On a more subconcious level, it is nicer to see your post on there are soon as you click the Post button. Its more of an instant gratification thing.

I also like seeing who else is online.

 

Also the newness of this forum has some appeal for new builders in that it somehow make everybody equal. Its kind of like what goes on when you join a group of people that have been talking to each other for a long time, you feel ackward asking certain things for fear that everbody will say (just as you have in your post) that the topic has been discussed and that they don't want to go through it again. While I can see their point (I wouldn't want to rehash things over and over again with "newbies"), for us newbies it feels more like you are involved when you are participating in the conversation rather than just reading about it in the archives.

[ekisbey]

This forum is more accessile. I don't need to have access to my e-mail, no setting up parasite accounts at work, and the history of topics are not going to disappear when I arbitrarily decide to reformat my hard drive (I do that sometimes).

 

Not only that, but there's a link to this forum right off of the Cozy website front page. It's easier to find for those of us who are new to the subject.

 

Third, the active participants here seem to be mainly Cozy builders with a current website detailing their construction status. The other lists are full of builders of other types of aircraft who's planes were finished years ago. I've only read the archives, but a lot of them seem opinionated and unimaginative, as well as intolerant of new builders with old questions and ideas. It's almost as though it's been so long since they built their plane they have forgotten what the learning and discovery process was like, and how much fun the rest of us are having pondering the what-ifs.

[John Slade]

Hi Marc,

Excellent! Nick and I felt that the forum was a good idea, so we put it up and let it find it's own way. You make very good points - particularly about the inconvienience of having multiple information sources. My take is this:

 

Censorship

I got totally disgusted with the ongoing censorship on the calist. There are enough examples on my web site ( http://kgarden.com/cozy/calist.htm ) to prove the point. I think there's a lot to be said for having a place where builders and drivers of ALL canard types can chat openly about their ideas without some moderator selectively suppressing comments he or she doesnt agree with. There is absolutely, positively no censorship on this forum. Posts go straight out without anyone reading them first. If anyone ever gets out of line it will be delt with after the post appears, much as you do on the Cozy list. I have a tremendous amount of respect and admiration for the way you've handled the Cozy list over the past four years. Nick and I modelled this forum on your example. My total involvement over the past 3 months as a "moderator" has been to tell the system to email his lost password to one member.

 

Hidden and Lost Expertise

On the canard list, and to some extent on the Cozy list, much of the knowledge is hidden because the real experts have backed away from posting. Either they don't want to repeat themselves or they don't want to get slammed. I think this is a great pity. I'm hoping these people will feel free to present their opinions here without fear of being insulted or abused. Much of this input relates to all canard types. Also, as we all know, the only dumb question is the one that never gets asked. Rather than voice their ideas and risk ridicule, I think many new builders are tending to keep quiet and implement their ideas without getting feedback first. For bad ideas, this is a dangerous trend. For good ones it's a loss to the canard community.

 

Type Overlap

While the Cozy is probably the leader in terms of current building, there's lots of overlap between Cozy, AeroCanard, LongEz, VeriEZ and Velocity. It would be nice to get all these people chatting together in one place, but using the structure to seperate type specific stuff.

 

Archives

Over the years you've made a valiant effort to get people to use meaningful headings. There is a good knowledge base in the Cozy archives, but it takes some sifting. Rick Maddy's search engine ( http://www.maddyhome.com/cozysrch/search ) has made life much easier than it was, but I think the archived hierarchy built into the forum and the threads will eventually make the historic information more accessible. This is early days for the forum, and the historic info isnt there yet, but as it accumulates it will be valuable.

 

Technology

The forum runs itself, and it handles automatically a lot of the stuff you have to do manually. While the Cozy list never puts out viruses, it does put everyone's email address on everyone else's machine, thus opening members up to viruses from each other and spam from people who get hold of these email addresses. The forum keeps email addresses private removing a lot of the second level virus and spam possibilities.

 

The Cozy list is text only. The forum lets people add images which readers can look at if they want to (but don't HAVE to download and view if they done want to). A picture is often worth a thousand words, but it can be really annoying if you're on dial-up and its a 250k picture of someone's dog.

 

It's also possible to punctuate posts with titles, italics, font and color changes to make the information more readable.

 

Additionally, rather than simply dumping every post in you're mailbox, the forum concept allows people to visit when they want, and follow the discussions they're interested in, but it has the option to advise you by email when a discussion you're interested in is taking place.

 

The forum has a user accessible calender which will come in handy once people figure out how to post stuff there. It also has buy-it and sell-it areas for classified ads between non commercial members.

 

Summary

As you say, the big problem right now is the multiple sources of information. On top of the general canard lists, I monitor the flyrotary list and the aeroelectric list. I'd much prefer to get everything in one place where I can control what I read, and reduce the number of daily email messages to a manageable number.

 

As it evolves, membership and usage grows, and more experienced canardians join, I think this forum, with it's structured, web-site based arrangement will gradually take the place of the individual mail lists. Right now I agree that we're we're a bit weak on experience, but it's growing every day. Even the infamous Wayne Hicks posts here from time to time.

 

My 3c.

John Slade

Cozy IV #757

[rmaddy]

Current Pros of the CCF:

- Easier access. Most people can access the web from anywhere. Personal email access from the road is usually more difficult.

- Message threading. You can much more easily see the history of a message.

- Attachments

 

Current Cons of the CCF:

- Not enough users have migrated over.

- People aren't posting messages in the correct area. Everything in the Coffee House defeats the purpose somewhat.

- You have to explicitly check for new messages.

 

Current Pros of Mailing List:

- Many more people to answer your question

- More instant gratification. I have 24x7 email at work and home. I know immediately when a new message has been posted.

 

Current Cons of Mailing List:

- No threading of topic

- Harder to get to on the road

- No attachments (could be a pro depending on how you look at it)

 

To cover one of John's points:

- Censorship - true of the CA list but not the Cozy list. Marc doesn't and my search engine has every single message - even the one's that have nothing to do with a Cozy or flying.

 

The biggest issue we all face is having both. Two places to read, two place to post to, duplicates messages.

 

I can go either way on this issue myself but both will suffer some as long as both exist.

 

Marc - you have the power, working with Nick, to instantly migrate the whole Cozy list to this forum is you wanted to. I don't recommend that because you piss off many of the mailing list subscribers I'm sure.

 

It certainly would eliminate some of the issues but there is no easy answer to this.

 

It certainly appears newer builders are joining this forum more than the mailing list (I think so anyway).

 

OK - this is becoming random thoughts instead of something insightful with a point.

 

I think my biggest problem is that I like this forum but because of my search engine, I have a love for the mailing list too.

[marbleturtle]

In the interest of free and open discussion, I would like to add my thoughts on the subject. Although the responses up to this point have all been given patiently and politely, I have no intention of responding so amicably.

 

>What I'm looking for is feedback regarding the relative appeal of this forum vs. the canard_aviators and COZY mailing lists.

 

TRANSLATION - What in the world do you people find apealing about this site?

 

>What I DO see, though, is a lot of repeat discussions (from a historical standpoint - witness the paint color one) in which incorrect information is disseminated and not corrected.

 

TRANSLATION - You people don't know what you're talking about.

 

>... I've been monitoring this CCF for a few months now... This is my first post.... the depth of knowledge... just doesn't seem to be available on this forum... those who CAN respond knowledgeably don't...

 

TRANSLATION - Intelligent people such as myself do not post, only you people who don't know what your talking about. (Don't worry Nat... I'm sure he wasn't talking about you!)

 

>...it would seem to me that it would better serve the members of this forum, especially the non-builder newbies, to join one or both of the other fora instead.

 

TRANSLATION - psst... hey newbies! Wanna see a better place to get information?

 

FYI - the plural of forum is forae (latin derivative). But I of all people should not correct the spelling of others. Bad spellers of the world untie!

 

>...it would seem to me that it would better serve the members of this forum, especially the non-builder newbies, to join one or both of the other fora instead... maybe the members of the other two fora should be migrated...

 

TRANSLATION - Moo! Poor newbies are fenced in by this forum and are too stupid to get themselves out. They desperately need my help to find another forum before they build a Black, twin turbine, pressurized, exhaust and coolant routed de-icing, BRS equipped, retracting pontooned, diesel powered Cozy MKIV tilt-rotor hovercraft!

 

 

I must say that, despite the pleasantries, I for one do take offense to the premise of this post.

 

TRANSLATION - Don't piss on me and tell me its raining.

 

I for one, an admitted newbie, welcome the capability to discuss with experienced builders specific items or conceptual ideas that I prefer to resolve before commiting to such a project. As for incorrect information, the prolific quantity of information available on the internet from a wide range of individuals always presents the problem of acuracy regardless of format.

 

TRANSLATION - I for one am thrilled to have these poor ignorant bastards respond to every ridiculous question or idea that pops into my head.

 

*Sigh... I feel better now.

 

 

[Joe Cygan]

Ok,alright,I think I just pissed my pants from laughing so hard!

[rmaddy]

Marbleturtle (what is your real name BTW?),

 

Your reply to Marc's posting is a bit out of line. Let me first ask you if you are aware of Marc's role in the Cozy world? He has run the Cozy mailing list for the last 7 years and has done an excellent job at providing an invaluable resource to the builder community. He is an engineer by trade and hist post reflects his analytical way of thinking.

 

I believe his post is sincere and he is simply trying to determine for himself whether he should even continue the mailing list and move every one here or not. (Marc, of course correct me if I'm wrong here).

 

Let's look at MarbleTurtle's attack:

 

>>What I'm looking for is feedback regarding the relative appeal of this forum vs. the canard_aviators and COZY mailing lists.

 

>TRANSLATION - What in the world do you people find apealing about this site?

 

Exactly - Marc is trying to find out what people like about this forum vs. the mailing list he runs.

 

>>What I DO see, though, is a lot of repeat discussions (from a historical standpoint - witness the paint color one) in which incorrect information is disseminated and not corrected.

 

>TRANSLATION - You people don't know what you're talking about.

 

As a new user you are not aware of the 7 years of prior discussions. As is normal on the Internet, there are people that talk a lot but say nothing. I think all Marc is saying here is that there have been MANY discussions filled with emotional tirades by many people without any basis in fact. This forum is experiencing the same thing. Don't get me wrong, discussion is good. But, as I'm sure you know, some of the info presented as fact is not correct and is left in this forum for future browsers to sift through without any real ability to determine what is right and what isn't.

 

>>... I've been monitoring this CCF for a few months now... This is my first post.... the depth of knowledge... just doesn't seem to be available on this forum... those who CAN respond knowledgeably don't...

 

>TRANSLATION - Intelligent people such as myself do not post, only you people who don't know what your talking about.

 

You managed to pull together a few parts here leaving out the meat. All Marc is saying is that with far fewer members on this forum than the mailing lists, there just isn't as much expertise to answer quesions. I agree with Marc here. Having been on the other forums for years and this one since it started, there is a difference. If you look at the last 100 posts on this forum, they are from a very small but vocal group. Most of them are newbies to building a plane. I am not saying the newbies shouldn't post, they have ideas too and I like to hear them. However, it is nice to hear from people with more real world, "been there, done that" experience that the newbies (including myself) don't have yet.

 

>>...it would seem to me that it would better serve the members of this forum, especially the non-builder newbies, to join one or both of the other fora instead... maybe the members of the other two fora should be migrated...

 

>TRANSLATION - Moo! Poor newbies are fenced in by this forum and are too stupid to get themselves out. They desperately need my help to find another forum before they build a Black, twin turbine, pressurized, exhaust and coolant routed de-icing, BRS equipped, retracting pontooned, diesel powered Cozy MKIV tilt-rotor hovercraft!

 

It's nice how you managed to drop off the first half of Marc's statement that offered the opposite idea - move everyone to this forum. Marc is trying simply trying to analyze both sides of the picture. There are pros and cons to both venues. The biggest con to both is that both exist (unless everyone joins both and actively participate in both).

 

I was torn when this forum started up. I like the forum format very much but until everyone uses it I need to monitor two sources. If I use just this forum I lose a lot of available expertise from the mailing list. If I use just the mailing list I lose the neat features of the forum.

 

>TRANSLATION - Don't piss on me and tell me its raining.

 

No one is pissing on you. All he asked was a simple, analytical question. You obviously don't understand where Marc is coming from.

 

>I for one, an admitted newbie, welcome the capability to discuss with experienced builders specific items or conceptual ideas that I prefer to resolve before commiting to such a project. As for incorrect information, the prolific quantity of information available on the internet from a wide range of individuals always presents the problem of acuracy regardless of format.

 

>TRANSLATION - I for one am thrilled to have these poor ignorant bastards respond to every ridiculous question or idea that pops into my head.

 

This is the only good part of your post. This holds true of this forum as well as the mailing lists - the free exchange of ideas and information.

 

Good day.

[ekisbey]

Black, twin turbine, pressurized, exhaust and coolant routed de-icing, BRS equipped, retracting pontooned, diesel powered Cozy MKIV tilt-rotor hovercraft!

You forgot the blind goose deflector.

 

On a more serious note;

 

One point that's been made here but hasn't really been commented on, is that there really are several sources of information with comparable information content to this one, and not all of us rookies know they exist, much less utilize them. Perhaps more effort should be made to direct those of us with seemingly unending questions towards those lists before we light this forum afire though ignorance.

 

Obviously, there is a depth of knowledge archived in the other lists that this forum cannot hope to provide, at least not at this time nor in the near future. As membership grows and the history of this forum deepens I'm sure that will change, but I for one have been startled into giving more attention to the lists and the archives than I have been, and already this afternoon have learned a number of valuable tidbits.

[Joe Cygan]

Alright,come on everyone,lets do a big group hug.Let's not let this thing get bigger than it is!

[dust]

i'm missing something here, has bad info been put on this forum? I can't remember seeing it. Has a question gone unanswered?

 

The reality is all of the groups are in effect two edged swordes,

 

Edge 1 you have builder support

 

Edge 2 you need and HAVE to have it to build the plane

 

The reality is that in building the cozy, you don't, the plans really are that good, and so is Nat's support.

 

I have barely read the mail group in years, I support this forum for edge 1 and try to emphasize the dullness of edge 2

 

The final answers to the questions are usually

FOLLOW THE PLANS

 

Mike

[unick3]

Group,

I want to thank Marc for his interest in the forum and starting this thread. I remember my first post on the cozy email group (7+ years ago?). Being a NewBee, I said something really stupid and was corrected by Marc (yes, I certainly deserved it). This is when I developed a great respect for his knowledge and experience.

 

I have always felt Marc has held best interest of all builders and flyers in the fore front of his actions. The amount of effort to administer/support the email group is tremendous, and yet he still found time to complete his cozy. Amazing. The disrespect of ANYONE by members of this group is not welcome. My apologizes Marc.

 

Whoo, that being said, I appreciate his question as it is one I would have certainly liked to ask after 6 months of operation.... What is so attractive about the forum idea for sharing information (over email), and how do the members feel about it?

 

I am certainly heartened by the responses. Thank you all....

 

I started this forum solely for one reason... I think it is a better way to exchange information for builders/flyers in a friendly community like format. Period. Being exposed to forums for years, I could clearly see the advantages and wanted to share this experience with others. I am, like Marc, solely interested in promoting information exchange and improving the safety of our sport.

 

I guess I was also frustrated with moderation, no attachments to posting, not knowing who (what experience level) the poster had, no feeling of a real time dialog (instant messaging) with other senders, getting viruses, getting 150+ emails after being on travel for a week, not being able to sell things...etc, of the email groups.

 

As a central storehouse of information, the forum cant be beat. EVERY SINGLE word of EVERY post (greater than 4 characters) is stored and indexed. Searching the archives is just a matter of typing in key words. This something that the CA group doesn’t offer. I have tried to search the cozy archives with mixed results. Email groups keep getting repeated threads. Even though I know we discussed the subject it is not easy to refer the sender to the proper threads (because they don’t exist). Therefore, I ignore the post and don’t respond at all...

 

For me the advantages are:

· This group requires almost NO time to administer.

· I can easily refer NewBee questions to archives

· Allows attachments

· Has a calendar of events

· You can post buy/sell ads

· You can view/post from anywhere (I am in Washington DC at a hotel right now... I cant view my home emails till I get back to my home computer).

· More of a sense of community

You can edit/remove/change your post at any time

Etc, etc

 

My only regret is the forum has not be rapidly embraced by others as there are so many builders with so much experience to offer. I wish I didn’t have to be a member of so many email groups. Someday this forum will be the site for one stop shopping for building information....just not yet.

 

But I am also heartened by the growing interest in the site. I hope to one day take the archives of all the groups I can find and import them into the database. It would make this site a wonderful archived resource.

 

Over time I feel the forum style of information exchange will eventually replace email groups as the numbers of members and participation at this site seems to be continually growing..

 

Has it been worth my time, effort and frustrations to get it off the ground. I thinks so. Only time will tell.

 

Good flying!

[Wayne Hicks]

Dear Rick Maddy:

 

I agree wholeheartedly with you except for one point.

Marbleturtle's response wasn't a "bit" out of line. It was WAAAAY out of line! And Rick, thanx for using your real name.

 

I also think the character assassination of Mr. Russell and AeroCad (ref: Loyalty thread) by those who DON'T know Jeff, have never done business with Jeff, or have never watched the man tirelessly answer question after question in the hot Sun-N-Fun sun free of charge.....well, it's a CRYING SHAME.

 

Wayne Hicks

Cozy IV Plans #678

Chapter 23 Engine

[marbleturtle]

I re-read the original post again along with my response to discern whether or not I over-reacted.

 

There are two ways to interpret this posting:

 

1. It is a genuine attempt to understand the group dynamics of this forum and how it offers an exchange of information that is more or less benificial than others.

 

2. It is a patronizing post from someone who has no interest in the answer to the question he presents, but rather an attempt to use growing popularity of this forum to collect more members for his own, so that his own fragile ego may be reinforced by the "correct" answers to the many and continuous ignorant questions from newbies such as myself.

 

 

Group - I really enjoy the free and open discussion we have here. I don't make a habit of ridiculing others. I have asked several ridiculous questions lately, and God help me, I might even need his help one day for determining the correct curvature of a high speed sweeped edged prop. I believe that there are no bad questions... with one exception... questions that are posed not to gain insight, but simply to ridicule or be patronizing.

 

 

I hope I didn't offend anyone here. Many of you have been very helpful to me personally and I especially value the ability to count on you when I take on the project in the near future. (And I didn't mean to be crass... the raining thing was extrememly "red-neck" of me.) But I stand by my original response.

[Marc Zeitlin]

The unknown marbleturtle spoke thusly:

 

1. It is a genuine attempt to understand the group dynamics of this forum and how it offers an exchange of information that is more or less benificial than others.

 

2. It is a patronizing post from someone who has no interest in the answer to the question he presents, but rather an attempt to use growing popularity of this forum to collect more members for his own, so that his own fragile ego may be reinforced by the "correct" answers to the many and continuous ignorant questions from newbies such as myself.

 

.... Questions that are posed not to gain insight, but rather one posed simply to ridicule or be patronizing..... but I stand by my original response.

 

.....Opinionated Know-it-All.....

You obviously don't know me, and have decided to turn this into a personal battle, rather than the open exchange of information that you claim to desire. As you yourself have pointed out, you had two ways to interpret the questions I posed, and rather than assume the best in others, you chose to assume the worst. This says far more about YOUthan it does about me. Others that have known me for years have responded in my defense - I won't bother (thanks to Rick Maddy and Nick Ugolini).

 

You are, in fact, an "ignorant" newbie, but ignorance is neither shameful, congenital, nor permanent - it can be easily fixed by gathering information. Stupidity and meanness, however, are much more difficult problems with which to deal. You claim to be an opinionated know-it-all, and your response here proves that false - at least the second part. Had I wanted to ridicule you, anyone else, or the forum, I would not have chosen such a circumspect methodology.

 

As it turns out, some of the other more reasonable members of this forum have provided succinct, meaningful replies that do, in fact, explain some of the advantages that people find here. I'm not sure I buy into them completely, but it certainly is possible that within a few years, the mailing lists will die out and the web forum will take over. If other people have more feedback regarding the pros and cons that's different than what's already been stated, I'd certainly be interested in hearing it.

 

BTW, Both Merriam-Webster and Webster's New World dictionaries defines the plural of "forum" as "fora" or "forums". No mention of "forae", I assume since we're speaking English here, not Latin. Once again, the "opinionated" part of marbleturtle's signature may be correct, but......

[marbleturtle]

Throw in a quote from ol' Sigmon Froide and a few derogatory comments about my Mamma... ... and you ... would be just about right!

[John Slade]

OK, guys.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Personal attacks are not welcome here. Marc. You were severely provoked, I grant, but you of all people should know better.

Let's just leave it at that and move on.

Be nice, people.

[John Slade]

Back to the subject at hand.. .

 

The "early adopter" factor deserves mention. Anyone familiar with technology marketing will have heard of the adoption "bell curve" for predicting sales. First you get the early adopters - the people who are into the technology and prepared to take a risk. Next you get the regular people who want early adopters to pave the way, and last you have the hangers on who wont let go of their old technology until they're forced to.

 

Most of the "early adopter" types have joined the forum already - you'll find that a suprising number of the active members are computer types, programmers, etc. I think we're beginning to get some of the middle group now. The forum is on it's the way up the standard bell curve. The real question is when will it hit what they call "critical mass" and start growing like a banchee. I'd guess at another 6 - 12 months to reach that point.

[John Slade]

Marc. Regarding my post above beginning "Hey guys"...

I've had a bit of feedback both ways, but the consensus is that you were entirely justified in you're outburst - in fact most seem to feel that you were too kind and gentle.

 

My thought was that any opinion is permitted, that MT had been told he was out of line, and had apologized - sorta. I was also thinking that flaming is what stops dumb questions being asked and this is something we want to avoid.

 

You've been handling this kind of stuff for years. I'm just learning. Want the job? It's yours in a heartbeat.

 

It seems an apology is owed. Consider it given.

 

Regards,

John Slade

[Mevans]

In an attempt to answer the original question;

 

I like the "look and feel" of this site better, easier to go to threads that are of interest. However, too many people seem to dump it all in coffeehouse.

 

I am building a rotary powered Long. It seems to me this forum is more open to alternative engines.

 

I asked a question on the CA once about where to find Rutan cloths other than Wicks and Spruce, I was lambasted for wanting to alter the plans. I am sure those people attacking me had 100 percent "stock" aircraft, (I think not) That is certainly not Marc's fault. This forum seems to have less people on their soapbox, again, not Marc's fault.

 

I would never ask a question concerning my rotary on the CA, but I would here, but that is a unique situation, and probably would not apply to many others. I still read both, but I would not post on the CA because of reasons previously stated.

 

A pet peeve for both sites, people ought to only be able to post under a real name. Best to all;

 

Matt Evans

Clearwater, Fl.

[Joe Cygan]

I personally like this group.I like the fact that a lot of you have no problem saying what you think,crap or not.I like the fact that this forum is not screened for proper content.I know that there has been a lot of bitter discussions lately and I like the fact that everyone can still see past them.

When you have a group that confirms to certain ideas and behaviors,things can be pretty boring.That will never happen here.The occasional insult or arguments are a good thing,keeps things fresh.

I hope Marc sticks around and Marvelturtle to.I hope I can pull the old foot out of the mouth before posting.But most of all,I hope can learn from everyone of you.Ahhhhh isn't that sweet,Merry Christmas!

[Marc Zeitlin]

Just as a clarification in response to Matt Evans' post, I have NOTHING to do with the CA list, which is moderated. I ONLY administer the COZY list. If you have problems with something going on on the COZY list, I'll be happy to listen and attempt to fix the issue. If there's a problem with the CA list, I can't help you - I'm only a member there, just like here.

 

And thanks for the continuing input.