rmc3pe Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Hi Everybody, Does anyone know of any varieze aircraft with corvair engines? I was checking out the engine mount on the varieze project I just traded for and it looks like the four main attach points would be located under the crank case. The only engine I've found with a four bolt pattern under the crank case that looks like it would fit my engine mount is the corvair engine. I would like to put a photograph on this site for you guys to look at. Can somebody tell me how post a photograph? Thank you, Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Hi Everybody, Does anyone know of any varieze aircraft with corvair engines? I was checking out the engine mount on the varieze project I just traded for and it looks like the four main attach points would be located under the crank case. The only engine I've found with a four bolt pattern under the crank case that looks like it would fit my engine mount is the corvair engine. I would like to put a photograph on this site for you guys to look at. Can somebody tell me how post a photograph? Thank you, Robert after you type, scroll down to 'manage attachments' then follow the promptsdon't forget to hit "save attachment" after you upload Quote Steve M. Parkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc3pe Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share Posted December 13, 2009 Hi Steve, Thank you for your reply. I'll try to get some photos on later today. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPowerCo Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Robert, This aircraft was listed on eBay about three times. I don't have the link to these auctions anymore, but if memory serves me, one of the eBay listings did mention that the engine mount was for a corvair engine. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc3pe Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share Posted December 13, 2009 Hi Tom, Thankyou for the reply. I thought it was a corvair mount also until I looked at it closely today. I don't know what used to be mounted to it now. I've attached some pictures for people to look at. If anyone has an idea, I'm certainly ready to hear it. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vari/Long-EZ Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 It appears to me, based on the photo that it would have been for a Corvair. What is the N number on the EZ so we can look up on the regristry. I have been looking into the possibility of put a Corvair on my EZ. Any body out there in Canard Land have any data on a Corvair installation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argoldman Posted December 14, 2009 Share Posted December 14, 2009 It appears to me, based on the photo that it would have been for a Corvair. What is the N number on the EZ so we can look up on the regristry. I have been looking into the possibility of put a Corvair on my EZ. Any body out there in Canard Land have any data on a Corvair installation? Contact William Wynne, the Corvair/aviation expert. (although not specifically for EZs Quote I Canardly contain myself! Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc3pe Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 Hi Rich and Vari/Long EZ, Sadly, I don't have the N-number for my varieze. In addition, I went to the William Wynne web site and checked out the engine mount positions for a corvair engine. They do not appear to be in the same location as the holes on my engine mount. When you look at the engine mount on my aircraft, there are 4 bottom mount holes fairly close to each other, then there are 3 horizontal mount holes closer to the fire wall and facing in the direction of the prop. If you or anyone else you know as ANY idea what might have been mounted there, let me know. I'm stumped!! Also, would the engine mount for an 0200 attach to a varieze the way this engine mount does. (If I can't figure out what engine originally went on this plane I plan on installing the engine most normally used on a varieze.) Thank you for your responses and help. Sincerely, Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelj Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Hi Rich and Vari/Long EZ, (If I can't figure out what engine originally went on this plane I plan on installing the engine most normally used on a varieze.) Robert An 0235 or even an 0320 would make a Varieze pretty hot with the right prop and it has already been done. I won't open the can of worms and mention the Mazda rotary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc3pe Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 Hi Michaelj, It's funny you mentioned it. I was just looking through the rotary engine sites and it looks like that might just be what was in mine. A rotary engine appears to be close to the dimensions that I would expect to fit my existing motor mount. Do you know of anyone who has used a rotary engine in a varieze? Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mfryer Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 This may be a stretch, but the Varieze origionaly had a VW engine. Update: after a little web searching that probably is not the answer.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 This may be a stretch, but the Varieze origionaly had a VW engine. Update: after a little web searching that probably is not the answer.... Steve Bennett (Great Plains Aviation) has been doing VW Engine conversions for years and knows them backwards and forwards. He's a member of my EAA Chapter (80). I had an occasion some tme back to ask him this same question and his comment was that it was not a suitable powerplant for a Vari or Long. In reference to the Corvair, he said that the crank was not strong enough and usually broke. I forget what journal they fail at but could get that information for you if you are interested. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argoldman Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Steve Bennett (Great Plains Aviation) has been doing VW Engine conversions for years and knows them backwards and forwards. He's a member of my EAA Chapter (80). I had an occasion some tme back to ask him this same question and his comment was that it was not a suitable powerplant for a Vari or Long. In reference to the Corvair, he said that the crank was not strong enough and usually broke. I forget what journal they fail at but could get that information for you if you are interested. Steve is a great guy and sells great products and ideas, but remember that he is a VW seller and may have a prejudice against competitors. This is not specific to Steve but is rampant in the aircraft (and many other) business. There is probably a Corvair website where the information is more reliable (or possibly slanted the other way.) I know that there are a few dragonflies that are switching from the VW to Corvair. Perhaps listening in on the D-fly list would give you more info. Quote I Canardly contain myself! Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 Steve is a great guy and sells great products and ideas, but remember that he is a VW seller and may have a prejudice against competitors.I know what you're saying but ....... he will tell you if the VW is not the correct solution.As far as the conversation went regarding the Corvair, it was totally off the cuff over a beer. He wasn't trying to blast any of the competition. It was more along the lines of what problems existed in the Auto-to-Aero effort. It's a lot like the weather forcast ....... if you try/search long enough, you'll find the forcast you're looking for. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc3pe Posted December 15, 2009 Author Share Posted December 15, 2009 After rechecking my engine mount. I believe my airplane must have had a rotary engine installed on it since the hole locations don't appear to be in the correct positions for either a VW or a corvair engine. But, I 'm still checking. Regards Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limo EZ Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 I do not think it was a rotary. They do not use that type of ignition coil. And it appears that the engine was located further aft than one would require with a gearbox. Could be direct drive . Joe Berki Limo EZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc3pe Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 Hi Limo EZ, What kind of engine do you think it could be? It's definitly not a corvair or VW motor. The mount holes on the bottom are too close together from front to back for a corvair and a VW motor mounts through horizontal bolt holes similar to an 0200. Also, this mount has 3 horizontal holes close together at what would normally be the top of the crank case. Are you sure that none of the older rotary engines used a coil ignition? I'm getting concerned about figuring out what kind of engine was on this plane. I really don't want to change out the motormount, but I guess I'll have to if I can't determine what kind of engine was on this plane. I'm open to ideas!! Thanks for the imput! Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelj Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 After rechecking my engine mount. I believe my airplane must have had a rotary engine installed on it since the hole locations don't appear to be in the correct positions for either a VW or a corvair engine. But, I 'm still checking. Regards Robert Robert, It would be a relatively easy task to put an 0200 or 0320 on your Vari, even though it had something else on it before. Do you wonder why the original engine is missing? I'm not totally opposed to experimenting with a rotary. There are some RV's out there with good installations. If you choose an aircraft engine you will get it in the air sooner. Lycomings and Continentals are very reliable and available ready to bolt on without a lot of engineering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc3pe Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 Hi MichaelJ, Have you looked at how my existing engine mount is connected to the fire wall. Does it look like an 0200 mount would connect to my fire wall? I don't know, I haven't found a picture of an 0200 setup yet. If it's an easy exchange, that may be my best option. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilK Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Are you sure that none of the older rotary engines used a coil ignition? Robert Robert, Mazda did have coil ignition in the early 80s and prior but it was made up of 2 coils, one for leading plugs, the other for trailing plugs. The mount you have just doesn't seem right to hang onto a 13B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Schubert Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 It could be for a Rotorway RW-100 engine. Rotorway modified a few of their helicopter engines for airplane use and at least one of them found its way into a varieze. All my things are packed up at the moment but I am sure there is an article with pictures in Alternative engines Vol 1 or 2. (Contact magazine anthology) Quote "We choose to do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard." JFK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmc3pe Posted December 16, 2009 Author Share Posted December 16, 2009 Hi Richard, Thank you for your reply. I'll check out the RW-100 engine. I would certainly like to use my engine mount if I can safely. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve 1 Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Perry Mick in Oregon built a Long Ez with a Masda engine and orginally a ducted fan. He removed the fan and now his performance is similar to my Long with Lycoming O-320 power. There was also a guy flying a KR-2 out of Flabob (RIR) with a 6 cylinder Corvair and called it his little P-51. I don't know if he is still flying it though. Personally, after 40 years of flying, I stick with certified aircraft engines. Look through the NTSB accident reports for engine failures and you will see that it is a major contributor to crashes. My two cents. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Perry Mick in Oregon built a Long Ez with a Mazda engine ......... with 700+ hours and no glider time. The only reason I would move from a Lycoming/Continental solution to an auto/conversion would be to avoid a piston powerplant. To trade one piston engine for another is not a valid reason (in my opinion.) Also, keep in mind that there are Lycoming engines out there that are not certified. In this instance, I would suggest locating the engine and pursue a new engine mount from a reliable source. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacGyver Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Issues for your consideration: 1. You have no information on the ancestry of the airplane 2. The airplane was advertised as "for parts" 3. You are seeking advice from an informal forum for idea/opinion/information exchange. Here's my take. I would start by acquiring all pertinent data about the VariEze (plans, Canard Pusher newsletters, etc.), and spend a decent amount of time learning about, understanding, and familiarizing yourself with the basic airplane and its evolution over the past 3 decades. Do this before you start bouncing around this (and other "canard" forums) looking for all the answers to your questions. Based on the pictures and info I have seen so far, for this airplane, you have a LOT of work to do, that will likely take much longer than you may think, to get this airplane in a safe, flyable condition. These airplanes (plans-built) must not be considered "plug and play" with respect to restoration and operation. While this airplane may well have been flyable in the past, it certainly is not now, and will take a lot of dedicated and correctly implemented work to bring it back to a Condition for Safe Operation. Seek the counsel of an experienced and knowlegeable VariEze builder who can give hands/eyes-on honest assesment of the project you have taken on. Do not rely on forums such as this to get 100% correct answers or suggestions - there are many opinions expressed on this type of forum that are only that - opinion, and opinions, as convincing/valid as they may seem, can be dangerous if actually implemented on an airplane. From my background (aerospace engineering and 28 years hands-on with VariEzes and Long-EZs), I would not, for example, advocate the installation of any engine on this particular airplane outside what has been documented by the designer (i.e stick with the Continental C-series or O-200, or the Lyc O-235). $$$$$$$$$. Plan on spending more money than you think when working to end up with a safe airplane. This includes spending money with regards to the engine aspects. As relatively inexpensive as alternate engines may seem, and as seemingly well-proven as some may seem, you are still embarked on pretty hard-core experimentation, when installing an alternate engine in something like a VariEze. I've seen this first-hand several times, and in each case, the canard builder ended up falling back on tried & true aircraft engines specified for their particular canard. -Joe Person EAA Tech Counselor 4418 VariEze N79JN Bothell, WA (KPAE) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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