Pour it all or brush it on

[aviator_edb]

Is it better to mix epoxy and our it all onto the glass and brush/stipple it out or to bush/stipple from cup to glass as you go? or something in between?

[Waiter]

Yes, All the above, depending on what your doing.

 

HOWEVER - You need to make sure its mixed completely before using it.

 

If I'm doing large flat surfaces, I'll pour it on and use a squegee to spread around.

 

The original Rutan video was a good primer for working with glass. Not sure where to find it!!!

 

Waiter

[SAF_Zoom]

The original Rutan video was a good primer for working with glass. Not sure where to find it!!!

 

Waiter

It comes free with the Cozy IV plans (along with a copy of the pilot hand book) when you order it from Aircraft Spruce.

[argoldman]

Yes, All the above, depending on what your doing.

 

HOWEVER - You need to make sure its mixed completely before using it.

 

If I'm doing large flat surfaces, I'll pour it on and use a squegee to spread around.

 

The original Rutan video was a good primer for working with glass. Not sure where to find it!!!

 

Waiter

Ya, what he wrote.

 

One suggestion, however.

 

For many more years than I care to remember, I was a squeegee man, It's almost like it was attached to my hand (especially when falling asleep after a large layup) When I made my fuselage parts in Aerocad's molds (I think that I am the only one ever to be able to do that), Al, through Jeff's tutelage suggested that I use a 6" joint knife to do the goo spreading.

 

Having been a squeegeeophile, and understanding that there were none at Aerocad, I brought a selection of my own.

 

After trying the joint compound knife (use on flat surfaces mainly) I had an epiphany.

 

 

Mikey liked it!!!! (actually Rich liked it).

 

Since then, with what seems like miles of whetted fiberglass, I only use the knife. I don't think I even know where my beloved squeegees are any more.

 

If you are concerned about bent layups, go to a kitchen counter fabricator or home depot and buy a few kitchen counter sink cutouts (formica type).

 

After your layups and peelply AND PLASTIC (I still like 1 mil!!!!! ) put the cutout over the layup, formica side down and weight it down. Allow to cure, flip and do the other side.

 

When you get confident in this method, you can actually do both sides at once (assuming both sides are flat). Lay up one side, with 1/8-1/4" overhang, peel ply, plastic, then invert on a flat table , glass the other side, peel ply, plastic board and weight. When you arrive the next morning, you have a completed part which needs only a band saw or belt sander to be complete.

 

Try it, you will find it knife.

[macleodm3]

You can also use your gloved hands to dip epoxy out of the cup and onto the glass. I also like using my gloved hands to spread out the epoxy when wetting out glass.

[Marc Zeitlin]

You can also use your gloved hands to dip epoxy out of the cup and onto the glass. I also like using my gloved hands to spread out the epoxy when wetting out glass.

After which I hope that you are immediately removing your gloves and replacing them with fresh ones, unless you're using thick butyl gloves.

[Lynn Erickson]

After which I hope that you are immediately removing your gloves and replacing them with fresh ones, unless you're using thick butyl gloves.

I think what Marc is saying is you should never intentionally get epoxy on the gloves, they are there only just in case you do, to prevent direct contact with your skin. after you get some experience with doing layups you will find that you can do the whole thing with out even a drop on your gloves.

[Neverquit]

after you get some experience with doing layups you will find that you can do the whole thing with out even a drop on your gloves.

After 5 years I must still be an apprentice. : )

 

Actually, there's lots of good discussion on the subject. You can go to http://www.maddyhome.com/cozysrch/ or search this forum. For vertical layups I like to wet it out with a (mock credit card) sqeegee it on 3 - 4mil plastic then pick it up with the plastic. Slap it on then roll out the excess (important). Brushing on and stippling epoxy is great but man can you go through the brushes! I use them mostly when the need is best or big such as wing or canopy.

[macleodm3]

After which I hope that you are immediately removing your gloves and replacing them with fresh ones, unless you're using thick butyl gloves.

I use two ply gloves, which are nitrile on the outside and latex on the inside. These gloves don't easily get holes in them during layups. Is there concern that nitrile does not protect from epoxy?

[Marc Zeitlin]

I use two ply gloves, which are nitrile on the outside and latex on the inside. These gloves don't easily get holes in them during layups. Is there concern that nitrile does not protect from epoxy?

See Lynn's comment above. The gloves are NOT impermeable. Stuff DOES get through. The more epoxy you get on your gloves, the more gets through. If the gloves were made of aluminum, then I'd say "use the gloves to smear on the epoxy all you want". But they're not - they're Nitrile, and they ARE permeable. Far better than latex or vinyl, for sure, and not as good as Butyl (the thick butyl gloves are the only ones that I would EVER consider getting epoxy on as a matter of course).

 

If you use disposable gloves, you should be changing them every 1/2 hour or so even with incidental contact. Don't stick you hands in the epoxy on purpose.

[aviator_edb]

well, depsite my seatback being more bubbly than champagne at least I changed gloves often enough.

[SAF_Zoom]

If you use disposable gloves, you should be changing them every 1/2 hour or so even with incidental contact. Don't stick you hands in the epoxy on purpose.

This is good to know, because when you watch the old video "Building the Rutan Composites"... Mr Rutan and Melvil use their hands to smear off epoxies and to sometime spread it around. But seing that Mr Melvil was using a barrier cream clearly indicates that we know a lot more about epoxies (and their impact on the human body) today then we knew back then.

 

All these "does and don'ts" about safety should be stickied somewhere on this forum... no pun intended.

[TMann]

I use the cheapo latex disposable gloves ............ over the butyl gloves. On big layups, I'll use two pair of disposables to allow the opportunity to remove a set to work with clean material quickly with clean hands and continue on without interuption

[macleodm3]

I end up changing gloves every half hour to an hour as a matter of moving on to the next ply, but I can be more diligent to use the gloves as a barrier and not as a tool. Thanks for the reminder.

[argoldman]

After 5 years I must still be an apprentice. : )

 

Actually, there's lots of good discussion on the subject. You can go to http://www.maddyhome.com/cozysrch/ or search this forum. For vertical layups I like to wet it out with a (mock credit card) sqeegee it on 3 - 4mil plastic then pick it up with the plastic. Slap it on then roll out the excess (important). Brushing on and stippling epoxy is great but man can you go through the brushes! I use them mostly when the need is best or big such as wing or canopy.

 

Still lobbying for the 1 mil variety. does not tear and conforms. does not show folds, easy to cut, etc etc.

[jpolenek]

The original Rutan video was a good primer for working with glass. Not sure where to find it!!!

Apparently, Wick's still sells it. It's called "Building The Rutan Composites". Probably still only available in VHS, though.

 

Joe Polenek

[SAF_Zoom]

Apparently, Wick's still sells it. It's called "Building The Rutan Composites". Probably still only available in VHS, though.

 

Joe Polenek

Nope its on DVD now... well at least the version that Aircraft Spruce sells (or give away with plans)

[aviator_edb]

Yup, I just rewatched my copy.

[brainfart]

Is it better to mix epoxy and our it all onto the glass and brush/stipple it out or to bush/stipple from cup to glass as you go? or something in between?

From my experience (lots of glass and visible carbon surfaces) it is best to work the epoxy through the fabric from the bottom with a DRY brush or squeegee if you want bubble and pinhole-free layups. When resin is poured on glass it gets impermeable for air and the bubbles are trapped in the layup. If you let the resins oak through the fabric from below the air can get out and there will be much less bubbles and pinholes.

[aviator_edb]

what about the first ply going on foam/slurry?

[Phil Kriley]

what about the first ply going on foam/slurry?

Squeegee your micro per the instructions, then lay your cloth on and pour epoxy over the glass or else you will be pulling micro up through the weave, and that's not a good idea.

 

Pour it on, move it around with the squeegee, then remove most of the epoxy with light passes of the squeegee, then add you next layer of cloth and stiple/squeegee, adding epoxy with a brush in dry areas.

[aeroknot]