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#41 Bob Setzer

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 10:38 PM

Gotta love that fiberglass!


TMann
Can't fraise it any better, I do like to work with it.

Bob Setzer
A-Solution

#42 Bob Setzer

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Posted 19 October 2009 - 10:42 PM

Monday we installed the upper tooling back on the plug to get ready to build the lower tooling. I’m putting the needed supplies together to get ready for an early November build. A little wax on wax off and the plug will be ready. Weather is starting to cool here in Florida, 51 degrees early today. It takes about two weeks to put five friends together to help out. So the swing in Florida temperature comes into play. Bob Setzer A-solution

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#43 Bob Setzer

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 11:45 PM

Well Being a person of few words here we go. We started this mourning at 9 and after 13.5 hours we are ready for tomorrows finishing lay-ups. I had five of my friends come out to the hangar to share the fun (wore them out). Most will be back in the A.M. to finish up. I figure about another 7 hours to finish, I could never have done this with out there help. Know longer a one man job to move the tooling any more. Just to big. Progress move on. Bob Setzer A-Solution

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#44 Bob Setzer

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 10:31 PM

After 6.5 hours of lay-up on to lower fuselage tooling today the major part of the tooling is done, I’ll be cleaning the tooling up in the next week so as to get ready to heat cure the tooling. I’ll be building a hot box to do the curing of the tooling. and parts in the future. Still a lot to do, progress moves on. Bob Setzer A-Solution

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#45 Bob Setzer

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 02:02 AM

I was sorting through the photo's I've taken of the project, came across the tooling for the spar. These photo's are of the spar plug, I will post the mold for the spar later. I've been building the supports for the lower Fuselage tooling so as to get ready for its removal from the plug. Progress moves on. Bob Setzer A-Solution

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#46 longez360

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 05:50 PM

Those molds look nice. Keep up the great work Bob.
Cheers,

Wayne Blackler
IO-360 Long EZ

VH-WEZ (N360WZ)
Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
http://v2.ez.org/fea...1-1/F0411-1.htm

#47 Bob Setzer

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Posted 10 November 2009 - 08:38 PM

Those molds look nice. Keep up the great work Bob.


Wayne
Thanks, I will be lucky if I can accomplish with molds what you were able to do without them.

Bob Setzer

#48 Bob Setzer

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 09:37 PM

Well another piece of the puzzle gets accomplished. The lower tooling was removed from the plug today. It’s always a process to get to this point, such as making supports and a stand to put the molds into. All part of the build process. It’s hard to imagine the area that the tooling is starting to take up. Still a lot to do. Progress moves on. Bob Setzer A-Solution

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#49 Cozy1200

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Posted 15 November 2009 - 08:59 PM

Bob, you are truly doing spectacular work. I can't wait to see some parts pulled from the mold. I've been following the thread, but don't recall. What type of glass, epoxy, internal structure system are you using?
Drew Chaplin (aka the Foam Whisperer)
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www.Cozy1200.com - I'm a builder now! :cool:
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Brace for impact...

#50 Bob Setzer

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 10:40 PM

Thanks Drew, You have a great web site with interesting info. All of the tooling has been built with the use of 7500 series tooling cloth and MGS resin sandwiching a balsa core. The tooling surface coat is made by PTM-W and is an epoxy tooling gel surfacing produce that is made to be use at higher temps than the tooling will run at. I’m going to heat cure the tooling to 200 degrees. I’m looking at curing the parts at 170. The tooling should hold together for awhile at that temperature. I did find out something the other day about the use of balsa as a core for the tooling, balsa has some moisture in it that on using it at a temperature that exceeds boiling point it could damage the tooling. Only taking the tooling to 200 only one time I hope the tooling will last for awhile. As far as making a fuselage I’m using MGS resin, E- Glass with a Divinycell core. Bob Setzer A-solution

#51 airnico

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 01:05 PM

Bob, I did not realize the core is balsa, I thought it was made out of pvc bricks linked with a net. sometimes ago I tried to build the cowling mould using pvc bricks, but it's not as easy as one could think. when you lay down the bricks on a curved surface they separate creating a lot of empty spaces to fill with micro. putting the micro in the voids is not that easy: if the micro is too thick it doesn't fill the voids completely because it's not able to go down where the voids are narrow, if it's too fluid it drips somewhere else and at the end the voids are never 100% full. on the other hand the quantity of micro used is very very big. again, when you lay down the bricks on a curved surface some voids are created under the bricks also, as the fuselage curvature is smooth and the curvature created by the bricks is not, so you have to put a bed of micro before to put the bricks. again the quantity of micro is very big. another problem: the bricks want to be curved in one direction only, now I see that you used small pieces of bricks-net instead of just a big one and put it diagonally, is it the secret to do a good job?. do you have any idea about the quantity of micro used for the whole fuselage? and how long did it take to do the job?I guess really a lot.... but it has turned out as a great job!!
Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads. (Dr. Emmett Brown)

#52 Bob Setzer

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Posted 18 November 2009 - 09:54 PM

Bob,

I did not realize the core is balsa, I thought it was made out of pvc bricks linked with a net.
sometimes ago I tried to build the cowling mould using pvc bricks, but it's not as easy as one could think.
when you lay down the bricks on a curved surface they separate creating a lot of empty spaces to fill with micro.
putting the micro in the voids is not that easy: if the micro is too thick it doesn't fill the voids completely because it's not able to go down where the voids are narrow, if it's too fluid it drips somewhere else and at the end the voids are never 100% full.
on the other hand the quantity of micro used is very very big.
again, when you lay down the bricks on a curved surface some voids are created under the bricks also, as the fuselage curvature is smooth and the curvature created by the bricks is not, so you have to put a bed of micro before to put the bricks.
again the quantity of micro is very big.
another problem: the bricks want to be curved in one direction only, now I see that you used small pieces of bricks-net instead of just a big one and put it diagonally, is it the secret to do a good job?.
do you have any idea about the quantity of micro used for the whole fuselage?
and how long did it take to do the job?I guess really a lot....
but it has turned out as a great job!!



Airnico
The balsa I used was a scrim and scored style cut I inch squares.
I cut the material in 4 by 10-inch pieces for the most part. To build the tooling I applied 6 layers of material with 4 additional layer to the flanges, that makes 10 layers on the flanges (this is the way all the tooling has been made). After a small break we installed the balsa by applying about 1/8 inch micro to the fiberglass and coating the back of the balsa to wet it out. Once each piece of balsa was installed it was never pull off for repositioning, so care was taken at this point, I would say care was taken through out the process). After the balsa was installed we started back at the beginning of the installed balsa and filled the larger gaps with micro (the balsa took around 2 ½ hours to in stall of the lower fuselage tooling. The whole process took 12 hours with 6 people.
The following day I took some 36-grid sandpaper and sanded off the hi spots, than applied a coat of micro slurry to the balsa surface. I used a mil-fiber mixture to fillet around the balsa edge, than 4 layers of material with additional 6 layers on the flanges. That makes a total of 20 layers of material on the flanges, around .26 inches of thickness. This process took 8 additional hours with 5 people.
So it took 20 hours to build the lower fuselage tooling (just over 100 man hours).
11.5 gallons of MGS resin and hardener.
Just the fuselage tooling alone there is around 30 gallons of resin and harder, 300 square yards of fiberglass cloth and 5-6 pounds of micro. Also 2.5 gallons of tooling surface coat.
To this point I have built the Canopy Frame Tooling, Spar Tooling, Speed Brake Tooling, Front Hatch Tooling, Canard Cover Tooling and Fuselage Tooling. Also I have built a really neat 4 axes CNC hot-wire
Cutting machine to cut my Canard and wing cores. I’ve got the canard and elevator down, but have not had time for the wings. I guess that I have to many things going on, what can I say.
The secret to laying the balsa in my case is to cut the balsa to a size that can be applied without trapping air, also I played with the mirco mixture before I got everyone together so as to have everyone mix micro at the same ratio. It worked out really well.

Bob Setzer
A-Solution

#53 airnico

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 07:24 PM

impressive numbers.....a huge work! what kind of glass cloth did you use?
Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads. (Dr. Emmett Brown)

#54 Bob Setzer

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Posted 19 November 2009 - 10:40 PM

impressive numbers.....a huge work!
what kind of glass cloth did you use?


Airnico
The E-Glass fabric is a #7500, a 9.66 oz. per sq. yd., .014 thickness.It is a heavy weight boat or tooling cloth. Plain Weave. Thread Count 16 x 14. Breaking Strength 450 x 410 lb./in. Finished Weight 9.40 oz. per sq. yd.
How things going on your project.

Bob Setzer
A-Solution

#55 airnico

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Posted 21 November 2009 - 08:21 AM

Bob, my plug is now complete and I'm going to build the fuselage's molds, a first attempt was made with the lower cowling to test my skills using pvc foam bricks/scrim(do not know the right english word for it) that I did not use before: first impact with it was not so smooth but now I have learned the lesson and think to be able to do a good job. the only problem is the size of the work: I realized that a one person only cannot accomplish such a big work because it's simply huge. I do not have any friends who can help me so I have to go a different way, I'm studying a possible solution.... unfortunately I live so far from where all the magic(in terms of aircraft building) happens.... please send me your address by PM, I'll send you some pics.
Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads. (Dr. Emmett Brown)

#56 Super-eze

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 11:13 AM

Bob, Will you be taking orders to sell the completed parts?
Keith.

#57 Bob Setzer

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 07:50 PM

Bob,

Will you be taking orders to sell the completed parts?



Keith
Thanks For showing Interest.
For Now I’m trying to keep the thread educational, for what it’s worth.
With the Holidays out of the way we are going back at it. Here in Florida the weather has been a problem, high in the 40’s with a low of 27 tonight.
To bring you up to speeds on what is going on I am making a heat box to heat cure the tooling to the 200-degree range. I’m hoping to have a Fuselage by Sun-n-Fun. I have a hangar here at Lakeland.
I’ve been working with an engineering firm to see what it is going to take to make an autoclave to make the spar in. It might be over the top but I’d like to build it that way. We will see.
We have been working on the hot wire cnc files for the wing and canard, I’m getting ready to start on a canard. I’ve got the jig table ready to build a set of wings.
If I have said this before Floor space is becoming scariest.
For how this is not a full time project, and in these time you have to be careful for what you wish for.

All the best to all.
Bob Setzer

#58 brainfart

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 11:27 AM

Nice. But I really worry about post-curing with balsa in there. 200 degrees Farenheit (110°C ?) is quite a lot. The Tg of MGS is somewhere up there, and you don't need to raise the post-curing themperature to or even above the glass transition temperature. Heating to 20°C (40F) below ultimate Tg for 5-8 hours or so is sufficient, there's no need to heat it up that much. Are you going to try this out on one of the smaller molds first? I'd hate to see the bigger ones ruined since the balsa started to outgas or something.

#59 Bob Setzer

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 08:51 PM

Nice. But I really worry about post-curing with balsa in there. 200 degrees Farenheit (110°C ?) is quite a lot. The Tg of MGS is somewhere up there, and you don't need to raise the post-curing themperature to or even above the glass transition temperature. Heating to 20°C (40F) below ultimate Tg for 5-8 hours or so is sufficient, there's no need to heat it up that much.
Are you going to try this out on one of the smaller molds first? I'd hate to see the bigger ones ruined since the balsa started to outgas or something.



Your right about the balsa being a possible problem. After talking With the Rep from the Mfg. of the tooling surface coat, he expressed the concern with bringing the tooling to a temp above the boiling point of water. Wood by nature has water content I’ll be honest did not thing of that.
With post curing the parts at !60-170 degrees (which will fall in the 40 degree range) it was recommended that I bring the tooling to a temp close to the tg of the resin one time.
I have taken the three smaller pieces of tooling to 200 degrees over a six hour period, just over 2 hours of that time was at 200. These pieces were built with the same lay-up schedule as the main tooling. All is well for how with these pieces.
Thanks for the input.

Bob Setzer




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