does not happen to me

[wolf.]

This does not happen to me!

There I was today test flying the restored varieze of a friend (the EFIS did reboot often and we harrowed down on the problem) nice weather CAVOK a little bit windy 18kts 28gust but 230degree wind and a 22 runway. Just hoped around the pattern quite turbulent, decided to go back got a direct base (you see it coming) decided to leave the speed brake in due to the wind (on final we had 50kts ground and 88KIAS, perfect short final slightly slipped into the wind, perfect touchdown no drift at all (I felt pride swelling up) until it made bonk and we landed on the nose!!!!!!!!!! stoped told the tower that we "tested something" put down the electric gear and taxied back. The Damage was slight (apart from my pride), my friend had installed a steel mount with a Polypropylene wheel. We ground the wheel off and part of the mount (and 5mm of the transponder antenna). I will post a picture of the installation. no heat damage to the rest of the structure and we landed fairly fast (the varie weighs 780lbs) so 80KIAS whatever that was in groundspeed with that wind.

 

learnings:

 

Install a gear warning

follow the checklist

 

I keept the ground of steel mount as my clubsign (gaerupers)

 

wolf.

[TMann]

Ouch ......

 

I can imagine how that happens. I love what Al Wick has done with his homebuilt glass cockpit. Audible warning through the headset when airspeed falls below a certain point and continous decent detected.

 

Gotta get me one of those. (It's on the list.)

[Edge 513]

Wolf.

It's said that there are ONLY two types of Eze drivers, one that it has happened to and the other is the one is yet to have it.

You got that checked, and out of the way!!

The only other one statistically is fuel starvation from inattention.

Leave that one alone.

[Wayne Hicks]

28 kts gusting to 50? You must have wanted to do that testing badly.

[TMann]

28 kts gusting to 50? You must have wanted to do that testing badly.

Must have been a fun taxi test as well.

[wolf.]

Must have been a fun taxi test as well.

15kts with gusts to 28kts not 50kts, and nearly down the runway. I would not fly with 50kts wind wouldn't even know how to taxi!!!

[Wayne Hicks]

Understood. My mistake.

[WTJohnson]

This does not happen to me!

There I was today test flying the restored varieze of a friend (the EFIS did reboot often and we harrowed down on the problem) nice weather CAVOK a little bit windy 18kts 28gust but 230degree wind and a 22 runway. Just hoped around the pattern quite turbulent, decided to go back got a direct base (you see it coming) decided to leave the speed brake in due to the wind (on final we had 50kts ground and 88KIAS, perfect short final slightly slipped into the wind, perfect touchdown no drift at all (I felt pride swelling up) until it made bonk and we landed on the nose!!!!!!!!!! stoped told the tower that we "tested something" put down the electric gear and taxied back. The Damage was slight (apart from my pride), my friend had installed a steel mount with a Polypropylene wheel. We ground the wheel off and part of the mount (and 5mm of the transponder antenna). I will post a picture of the installation. no heat damage to the rest of the structure and we landed fairly fast (the varie weighs 780lbs) so 80KIAS whatever that was in groundspeed with that wind.

........

Sorry to hear that you had a 'nose' landing. Seems to happen to the best of us....Guess that's why I normally lower my nose gear prior to decent to the

45 approach. I have a hard time remembering to look thru the window for the nose gear down on final.

My concern was your comment about slightly slipping into the wind on short final. The first Varieze in the hanger I have did side slips (around 79-80) and paid the ultimate price for it. I do not know if he had limited his rudder travel per Rutan or not since I never met him in person. I do not know who has tested side slipping since I first flew my Vari in 1981........so I do not feel it is a good idea to suggest doing it.

Please comment if some of you have done side slip tests under various side winds and velocities....and are alive to tell about it.

I personally point the nose into the wind a bit and straighten it out just prior to touchdown. Some landings are not the best, but I do not want to fool around with side slips ......and possibly end upside down before you realize it.

WT Johnson

Varieze N725EZ

[wolf.]

I knew that the first Varies sideslipped could under some conditions depart from controlled flight and I read that Burt limited the rudder travel to prevent that. The Varie I flew is from 83 and so far in testing I have slipped it quiet agressively and did not loose it (the carft has 400h, but after restructuring I test flew it again, so lots of altitude and a chute) The craft is heavy, 780lbs so anyway I aproach fast and that day because of the gusts I was at about 100KIAS (no speedbreak)

To cut ist short this Varie seems to not depart

 

wolf.

[WTJohnson]

I knew that the first Varies sideslipped could under some conditions depart from controlled flight and I read that Burt limited the rudder travel to prevent that. The Varie I flew is from 83 and so far in testing I have slipped it quiet agressively and did not loose it (the carft has 400h, but after restructuring I test flew it again, so lots of altitude and a chute) The craft is heavy, 780lbs so anyway I aproach fast and that day because of the gusts I was at about 100KIAS (no speedbreak)

To cut ist short this Varie seems to not depart

 

wolf.

........

I seem to recall that when Burt Rutan cut the rudder travel in half, he also said no side slips. But that is only what I recall without checking old Canard Pushers. So I expect that he felt that the downwind wing on a Varieze could possibly still get blocked by by the fuselage in a side slip depending on speed of both the wind and aircraft.

Steve Stuff apparently had several successful side slips right up to the last one. I elect not to check out how mine performs !!

WT Johnson

[Drew Swenson]

Using both rudder simultaneously is pretty effective (Cozy/Longez). Another trick you can use is to dump the lift vector---very quick left and right rolls up to about 30 degrees or so on final---with both rudders out---so quick that you really never change heading. This will swish your lift vector left and right---and give you more ROD without increasing speed. And of course, if you are really gooned up, you just have to add power and try again.

 

I don't use sideslips either to increase my ROD in EZ aircraft.

[Ghost]

After extensive research, and a lot of input from the members of this forum. I modified the Gear Warning on my VariEZe after a GA pilot friend on mine sat in my aircraft.

 

It started with a simple question, “Is this a full RG?” I explained that it was a partial RG in that the nose wheel retracted. He then asked wear the GREEN light was indicating the gear was down.

 

Obviously ( following Rutan Plans ) we don’t have one; I explained that we do have a gear warning system, and I pointed out the sight glass used for visual confirmation of the gear both up and down. He agreed the sight glass was very good; but he noted that the gear warning system was limited in that it only provided feedback to the pilot if you did something wrong, and or forgot something ( like lowering your nose gear ).

 

I was a little lost, because I though that’s what a gear warning as supposed to do, WARN you if something was in fact wrong. My friend ( very experienced pilot 5K flight hours in he can’t remember how many different aircraft ) said it is supposed to warn you of a problem, but it should also reinforce, and provide feedback when something is correct. He went on to explain the multiple checks used to verify the gear is down.

 

1) Check List ( Don’t just say it, do it )

2) Sound ( Listen for the knock when it locks in place )

3) Visual ( Mirrors, Sight Glass if available )

4) Electrical Indicator ( Little Green Light )

 

I appreciated the lesson, and we talked about the time tested GUMP check commonly used in the aviation community before landing. We looked at the current gear warning set up ( Rutan ) an identified a way to incorporate a Green light that would turn on when the gear was locked down.

 

It sounds like the aircraft you were flying doesn’t have any type of warning system, if that’s the case, I hope you consider installing one with both a Red and Green indicator, not to mention an annoying buzzer.

 

Good Luck,

 

Ghost

[wolf.]

actually both my long and the varie i nosescratched have the red/green light, but its like the window, if you forget to look at them... in both crafts we will install active warning devices.

 

wolf.

[TMann]

These are all great Ideas but I like the Al Wick approach the best.

I really can't imagine a better solution:

Turn your sound on before you load the page.

 

http://www.maddyhome.com/canardpages/pages/alwick/index_files/Page575.htm

[macleodm3]

These are all great Ideas but I like the Al Wick approach the best.

I really can't imagine a better solution:

I can't imagine a abetter solution either, I have really liked Al's approach since the first time I saw it on the web. It looks like something that might be frustrating to get working correctly, and I wonder if the fact that its not "plug-n-play" detracts more builders from incorporating a system like Al's.

 

It looks difficult... I know, Al says its easy to implement, and maybe it is. I really like this system, but really, is it going to be reasonable to get it working relative to a package engine monitoring system and the associated warning systems such as gear and canopy?

[DouglasHolub]

I'm about half way through my Phase I flight testing in my fixed gear Velocity. It has the Wilhelmson electric nose lift. If I need to make an emergency landing in a field, should I land with the gear up or down?

 

Doug Holub

Irving, Texas

[spg_76013]

With regards to gear/canopy/throttle warnings, for your consideration you might be interested in my slightly modified warning circuit, attached in post #7 under Electrical Systems/ Warning Circuit.

 

Regards,

 

SPG1

[TMann]

It looks difficult...

 

Agreed .... but then it all looks difficult from the start, doesn't it?

 

I really like this system, but really, is it going to be reasonable to get it working relative to a package engine monitoring system and the associated warning systems such as gear and canopy?

I think it's worth a shot. I have already purchased the PLC and vaious other components. I still have to buy the sofware but I plan on having this running prior to first flight.

 

The point Al makes about the limitations of the off the shelf products in very valid.

I plan on running AnywhereMap (with XM weather) so that would involve an onboard computer anyway. I can incorporate this system into the same display.

 

With the PLC in place you can set an 'arm' switch as a backup and automatically deploy the gear and the landing brake if a certain criteria has been met.

I also like the idea of incorporating an onscreen checklist as well as airport diagrams (plates) and the like.

[Cozy1200]

I flight testing in my fixed gear Velocity. It has the Wilhelmson electric nose lift.

Isn't that a contradiction of terms? The FG Velocity doesn't kneel or am I wrong?

[CBarber]

The FG Velocity does NOT kneel. I am guessing, even if someoen added (like it sounds was done here) a retractable nose gear, it still would not be best to have it kneel since it is not the way it is designed. I think the fusalage is longer thus would have a different set of factors concerning its kneeling "performance".

 

I believe the original Velocitys (I seem to recall at least one that was pictured in the old Velocity Views Newsletter, now availble online) did have a retractible nose gear but the benefit was not considered to be that great....for what ever reason.

 

FWIW.

 

All the best,

 

Chris