steve Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 can i put the winglet even with the LE of the wing ? Quote Steve M. Parkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cozy Girrrl Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Steve, I'm not sure but I believe one of the reasons was the simplicity of where the rudder cut line fell behind the TE of the wing. I am sure there is more to it than that? ...Chrissi Quote CG Products www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B Turbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted January 25, 2009 Share Posted January 25, 2009 Steve, I plan on matching up the leading edge when I do mine. The rudder cable will transition in a curve through that area an exit vertically inside the hinge pocket. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neverquit Posted January 26, 2009 Share Posted January 26, 2009 Jack did that to his E-Racer with no negative affects. Although similar to a Cozy, not a Cozy. Since you've been in quite a lot of Cozys, you should be able to tell us the difference when you try it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 Jack did that to his E-Racer with no negative affects. Although similar to a Cozy, not a Cozy. Since you've been in quite a lot of Cozys, you should be able to tell us the difference when you try it.are you poking fun at me?...a mans gota fly right ?i allmost got the wing guy to spill about jacks new set-up but all i got was its new.. Quote Steve M. Parkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge 513 Posted May 21, 2009 Share Posted May 21, 2009 Just to post a couple of pics of Jack's and my work on my wings over last weekend to show the spar cap assemblies since many are wondering about the blended cores structure. Veru easy to accomplish and is now ready to cut out the rudders. Yes, I am not just "winging" it...but am working with the brightest in our community. Looking at a "system" using oversize wet strake leading edges, longer original canard etc to fulfill my 540 powered Cozy with regards to Cg and performance across the board. Thanks, Marc, Jack, Chris, Lynn for all your help and input. Quote Self confessed Wingnut. Now think about it...wouldn't you rather LIVE your life, rather than watch someone else's, on Reality T.V.? Get up off that couch!!! =) Progress; Fuselage on all three, with outside and inside nearly complete. 8 inch extended nose. FHC done. Canard finished. ERacer wings done with blended winglets. IO540 starting rebuild. Mounting Spar. Starting strake ribs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Yes, I am not just "winging" it.... I see that ...... you're workinng with the master!It looks very cool Dennis. A very smart approach, indeed. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhassel Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 WOW! Did I say WOW? REally nice! Bob Quote Bob Hassel Cozy Plans #749 Santa Fe, NM http://www.cozyworld.net http://www.hassel-usa.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge 513 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 This shows a 12 inch diameter disk for scale. Also sanding out the sparcap depth prior to hot wiring off the leading edge. The leading edge matches the wing leading edge. All of this is completely experimental and YMMV. I am only offering these as a partial tease to show a flown design that worked to above 260MPH. Other guys are hemming and hawing about what goes into the blend...I know this works. The Cozy is a subtly different platform, and as best I can, I have pieced together what seems best for the Cozy540 airframe I have produced to work. As far the the winglet, no questionable interior structure, just a proven, simple sparcap. As we talked, a valid concern is the various blended structure/no structure assemblies, and the possible failure and bad name associated with them, based upon some of the structurless assemblies. I hope that doesn't happen. Then there is the CG issues and deep stall consideration. So this is what I am doing along with other aspects in my airplane...and to others, I say good on ya. Peace out. Quote Self confessed Wingnut. Now think about it...wouldn't you rather LIVE your life, rather than watch someone else's, on Reality T.V.? Get up off that couch!!! =) Progress; Fuselage on all three, with outside and inside nearly complete. 8 inch extended nose. FHC done. Canard finished. ERacer wings done with blended winglets. IO540 starting rebuild. Mounting Spar. Starting strake ribs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAF_Zoom Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 That makes for a very sexy wing. I love it when poeple take the time to improve on the design. I can't wait to get some feedback on how it flies. Bravo !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 I can't wait to get some feedback on how it flies. Zoom .... Jack is the one who came up with this design. He has posted his results and the reduction in drag gave him 10+ knots of additional airspeed. Jack did a lot of flight testing/tuft testing and has posted the results (not sure if it's here or on the CA forum.) I had an invite to come up and actually get some 'hands-on' experience and had to opt out. I can't believe that Jack can freehand shape the blend and have it come out perfect like that. What a good eye. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Zeitlin Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 This shows a 12 inch diameter disk for scale..I'm curious why you chose a 6" radius, rather than the recommended 12" radius. Quote Marc J. Zeitlin Burnside Aerospace marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu www.cozybuilders.org copyright © 2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cozy Girrrl Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Edge.... WOW Quote CG Products www.CozyGirrrl.com Cozy Mk-IV RG 13B Turbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLKnolla Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Edge, that is dead sexy, looks fantastic and hopefully you see similar results to Jack's previous excellent work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAF_Zoom Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Zoom .... Jack is the one who came up with this design. He has posted his results and the reduction in drag gave him 10+ knots of additional airspeed. Jack did a lot of flight testing/tuft testing and has posted the results (not sure if it's here or on the CA forum.) I'll look around then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge 513 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Marc, This radius is came out a bit larger than Jack's. We talked, and he wanted to add foam sideways to the 8x8 block and it netted out this larger blend. I would say a 10 inch disk would fit in Jack's. He might confirm if desired. A 24 inch disk?..to fit a 12inch radius...would be HUGE...with the stabilizer very high. Wish I had a forward shot for you to superimpose that bigger radius... Quote Self confessed Wingnut. Now think about it...wouldn't you rather LIVE your life, rather than watch someone else's, on Reality T.V.? Get up off that couch!!! =) Progress; Fuselage on all three, with outside and inside nearly complete. 8 inch extended nose. FHC done. Canard finished. ERacer wings done with blended winglets. IO540 starting rebuild. Mounting Spar. Starting strake ribs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Zeitlin Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Marc, This radius is came out a bit larger than Jack's. We talked, and he wanted to add foam sideways to the 8x8 block and it netted out this larger blend. I would say a 10 inch disk would fit in Jack's. He might confirm if desired. A 24 inch disk?..to fit a 12inch radius...would be HUGE...with the stabilizer very high. Wish I had a forward shot for you to superimpose that bigger radius...Well, if that's correct, then Jack didn't build what I recommended, and neither are you. That probably explains the separation seen in the tuft testing of Jack's winglets. I'll have to check with Chris Esselstyn to see what his radius is, because he's got some substantial separation as well (haven't seen his performance #'s yet). Apparently the difference between radius and diameter is not well understood... Quote Marc J. Zeitlin Burnside Aerospace marc_zeitlin@alum.mit.edu www.cozybuilders.org copyright © 2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAF_Zoom Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 This may be a stupid question, but is the winglet at the same distance from the centerline or as it been move outward to keep the same wingspan (before the bend... if that makes sence ?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMann Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 It should be thw same distance. Quote T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18 Velocity/RG N951TM Mann's Airplane Factory We add rocket's to everything! 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Morrison Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 Marc My blended winglets are at 6in inside radius at the center of the spar. That radius changes as you move aft of the spar.If you make the radius any larger it would saise the rudder up to far. I would never install a blended winglet for anyone other than what I have personally tested. I do not recall that the radius for the winglet was ever brought up. I'll go back tomorrow and see. The out side radius is close to 12 in, but not quite. I loaned the template to someone and never got it back. There is a loss of attachment at very low speeds with this blend but does not have any adverse handling qualities and I gained between 10-11 kts at speeds from 130 kt to 210 kts across the board. The new ones should be interesting. Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge 513 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 You got us there. The outside may be close to a 12inch dia. I actually I think Jacks inside is about 5 and 3/4. I have seen his successful tufting photos and noted his extensive performance testing and am happy to have the derived blend that I do. As you have said before, the 12 inch would be more efficient, but the vertical winglet would be sail-like in elevation at an additional 6 inches over the top of the wing. At least thats my H.O., and I didnt want to rethink new blends. What I did want was a proper internal skeleton and high speed capable wings/winglets.[thats why, in addition my wings were built to the Eracer specs by Dennis Oelman, same as Jacks EracerExtreme was.[except for the above two items] Chris' radius is right at where these winglets are with the difference being that he stood them back off the L.E. and also canted them out 12 degrees. He used Jacks info on his, as well. Scott Carter's flying 540Cozy has the B.W's, and his are smaller radius'. Not sure of what he has to report. I just know Jacks work and am incorporating them into my application. Below is the picture that starts it all. The 8 x8 block of foam that gets sculpted into the blend. You cut about 6 inches off the bottom of the plans hotwired winglet to locate its cord along the outside edge of the block. Also a picture of Jacks tufting. Bede Bedeh, bdedeh..thats all folks. Quote Self confessed Wingnut. Now think about it...wouldn't you rather LIVE your life, rather than watch someone else's, on Reality T.V.? Get up off that couch!!! =) Progress; Fuselage on all three, with outside and inside nearly complete. 8 inch extended nose. FHC done. Canard finished. ERacer wings done with blended winglets. IO540 starting rebuild. Mounting Spar. Starting strake ribs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airnico Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 as the radius increases going from the L.E. to the T.E. where is the right point to measure it? should the radius be 12"(as indicated by Marc) at the center of the spar cap? Quote Roads? Where we're going we don't need roads. (Dr. Emmett Brown) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge 513 Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 as the radius increases going from the L.E. to the T.E. where is the right point to measure it? should the radius be 12"(as indicated by Marc) at the center of the spar cap? Its a hand done thing that swoops. Those wanting a shape that is hot wireable, I dont think are going to get it. Marc will have to design that response for you. After having done mine and physically touched the scale dimension of it in relation to our wings, I think the 12 inch radius will be huge. The stabilizers and rudders will end up very high, but maybe could be cut down to something like the old VariEze rudders. I was offering photos simply to show a successful tested structure. I hope somewhere down the line those wanting to do them can be all on a similar tested and working page, so there are no surprises after a lot of work and time. Hey, but then, this is EXPERIMENTAL aviation huh? Quote Self confessed Wingnut. Now think about it...wouldn't you rather LIVE your life, rather than watch someone else's, on Reality T.V.? Get up off that couch!!! =) Progress; Fuselage on all three, with outside and inside nearly complete. 8 inch extended nose. FHC done. Canard finished. ERacer wings done with blended winglets. IO540 starting rebuild. Mounting Spar. Starting strake ribs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted August 3, 2009 Author Share Posted August 3, 2009 This shows a 12 inch diameter disk for scale. Also sanding out the sparcap depth prior to hot wiring off the leading edge. The leading edge matches the wing leading edge. All of this is completely experimental and YMMV. I am only offering these as a partial tease to show a flown design that worked to above 260MPH. Other guys are hemming and hawing about what goes into the blend...I know this works. The Cozy is a subtly different platform, and as best I can, I have pieced together what seems best for the Cozy540 airframe I have produced to work. As far the the winglet, no questionable interior structure, just a proven, simple sparcap. As we talked, a valid concern is the various blended structure/no structure assemblies, and the possible failure and bad name associated with them, based upon some of the structurless assemblies. I hope that doesn't happen. Then there is the CG issues and deep stall consideration. So this is what I am doing along with other aspects in my airplane...and to others, I say good on ya. Peace out. i just did my last wing/blend and with hope i'll get the stab on tomarow its funny how mine looks so much like yours... Quote Steve M. Parkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge 513 Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Steve, Whats your structure look like INSIDE? That's the 64,000. question. The out side is relatively doable but the inside is where it's at. Dis you cut the front off of the other one and sand out a spar cap trough on both sides to continue your spar through and UP the stabilizer? Nevermind, dont have to answer that, but it is easy to do, it makes a continuous sensible assembly that is some dang kinda STRONG!!! My friend grabbed onto my tip and yanged on it, and it was a stiff as a board. Then I grabbed onto the tip of his, and he said....whoa h=what are you doin'? I said, "i'm gonna yang on yours as hard as you yanged on mine"...and he said, "No you aint, mine aint strong enuf to take that". And you know, he's probably right, not that a vert stabilizer built per plans ever was in question, strength-wise. But the B.W. as built with the spar cap running through it is WAYYYY stronger than plans. No 15 plies needed. FWIW. Quote Self confessed Wingnut. Now think about it...wouldn't you rather LIVE your life, rather than watch someone else's, on Reality T.V.? Get up off that couch!!! =) Progress; Fuselage on all three, with outside and inside nearly complete. 8 inch extended nose. FHC done. Canard finished. ERacer wings done with blended winglets. IO540 starting rebuild. Mounting Spar. Starting strake ribs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.