Phil Kriley Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Where can I find the aluminum or steel sleeve called for in the FAQ's for replacing the alignment pins with bolts? Re-drill the longeron doubler with a 3/8" drill all the way along the length of the doubler. Flox in an aluminum or steel sleeve (3/8" OD x 3/16" ID). Thanks! Quote Phil Kriley Cozy #1460 Chapter 13 - nose Right wing done - working on right winglet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Schubert Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 I can make you some and bring them to the chapter meeting tuesday. Let me know the length and whether you prefer aluminum or steel. Quote "We choose to do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard." JFK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Ashton Posted October 15, 2008 Share Posted October 15, 2008 Where can I find the aluminum or steel sleeve called for in the FAQ's for replacing the alignment pins with bolts?: Phil, Unable to answer your question but OTOH, I just don't see the need to do this. I've had the standard pins on two canard airplanes and three different canards. They've never been a problem. Easy to mount and dismount the canard with the plans pins. Best of all: light weight! -Kent Quote -KentCozy IV N13AM-750 hrs, Long-EZ-85 hrs and sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Kriley Posted October 16, 2008 Author Share Posted October 16, 2008 Richard - thank you for your generous offer! I guess my preferrence would be aluminum, and two 5" pieces should be long enough. I'm thinking that shorter would work, but until I drill the holes I won't know for sure. If I get the holes drilled, I'll let you know the length more accurately. Kent - I'm just reading the FAQ's and this minor modification made sense to me - especially when they said that the more accurate you were the harder it was to remove the canard using the plans method. So far, installing and removing the bolts and washers for the main landing gear bow has been a real PITA. Ditto the elevator hinges and washers. So anything I can do to make this plane less of a PITA to work on, then I'm probably going to do it. Thanks for the replies! What I was really looking for was - where did anyone else that did this mod get the tubing? 3/8" OD with 3/16" ID doesn't seem to exist in nature... Quote Phil Kriley Cozy #1460 Chapter 13 - nose Right wing done - working on right winglet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynn Erickson Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Richard - thank you for your generous offer! I guess my preferrence would be aluminum, and two 5" pieces should be long enough. I'm thinking that shorter would work, but until I drill the holes I won't know for sure. If I get the holes drilled, I'll let you know the length more accurately. Kent - I'm just reading the FAQ's and this minor modification made sense to me - especially when they said that the more accurate you were the harder it was to remove the canard using the plans method. So far, installing and removing the bolts and washers for the main landing gear bow has been a real PITA. Ditto the elevator hinges and washers. So anything I can do to make this plane less of a PITA to work on, then I'm probably going to do it. Thanks for the replies! What I was really looking for was - where did anyone else that did this mod get the tubing? 3/8" OD with 3/16" ID doesn't seem to exist in nature... where did you see this mod? and why would you do it? plans method is proven system. just because it is suppose to makes install easier does not mean that it is safe. the only thing I have seen is where you install a threaded sleeve in place of the pin and thread in a bolt through the rear tab. it is not needed and actually makes the removal and install more of a PITA. Quote Evolultion Eze RG -a two place side by side-200 Knots on 200 HP. A&P / pilot for over 30 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Kriley Posted October 16, 2008 Author Share Posted October 16, 2008 where did you see this mod? and why would you do it? plans method is proven system. just because it is suppose to makes install easier does not mean that it is safe. the only thing I have seen is where you install a threaded sleeve in place of the pin and thread in a bolt through the rear tab. it is not needed and actually makes the removal and install more of a PITA. The mod is described on several of the builders' sites, and is also described, as I stated, in the FAQ's, which are distilled by reputable builders from the archives. I have not read about the "threaded sleeve" that you mention. Quote Phil Kriley Cozy #1460 Chapter 13 - nose Right wing done - working on right winglet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Springer Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 [the FAQ] said that the more accurate you were the harder it was to remove the canard using the plans method. That comment is in the FAQ, but it does not make any sense to me. If the pins are installed accurately, then they will be inline with each other and the canard will be easier to remove. If you were terribly inaccurate, the pins might be pointing in completely different directions, and then the canard would be impossible to remove. I just can't see how accuracy is a bad thing. I just completed this step, and this is one mod I chose to skip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Kriley Posted October 16, 2008 Author Share Posted October 16, 2008 Well, I've never built a Cozy before, and so am relying on those who have gone before me. The info in the FAQs has been very useful to me up to this point - all the little "gotchas" that others have already run into that I have not had to deal with - thanks to the info in the FAQs. It made sense to me because once you have built the canard cover, you really don't have any room to move the canard forward to remove it from the pins. I assumed that what was meant by accuracy in the build had to do with the tolerance between the canard cover and the fuselage - NOT the alignment pins themselves. It seems to me that if one is accurate in fitting the canard cover, there will be very little "wiggle room" for pulling the canard forward off of the pins. Looking at the plans, that makes sense to me. But if the builder allows some "slop", then the canard can be wiggled forward and removed from the pins. Hence the desire by some to make the bolt-on alignment tabs. I really was not looking for an argument here. I just wanted to know where I could find 3/8" OD x 3/16 ID tubing. I guess I should not have said why I wanted it... Quote Phil Kriley Cozy #1460 Chapter 13 - nose Right wing done - working on right winglet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kent Ashton Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Kent - I'm just reading the FAQ's and this minor modification made sense to me - especially when they said that the more accurate you were the harder it was to remove the canard using the plans method Well, I see where you're going. I did have to go back and modify my Cozy IV for exactly that reason. The canard lift tabs have to have enough clearance from the sides of the fuselage to allow the canard to slide straight forward for about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch to come off the pins. I had to provide more clearance by hogging away a little of the fuselage and reglassing. The canard comes off pretty easily after i did that. -Kent Quote -KentCozy IV N13AM-750 hrs, Long-EZ-85 hrs and sold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge 513 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Hi Phil, The plans method of having the canard cover attached and part of the canard makes it a bear to get to the 5 screws that hold the instrument panel cover in place. Marc took a Velo idea and made a removable canard fairing.[see pic]. This way is very easy and allows easy access to what you are considering and the instrument bay. The canard is also a bit easier to remove and replace because you can see the mounts with the cover removed. =) Just an idea. Quote Self confessed Wingnut. Now think about it...wouldn't you rather LIVE your life, rather than watch someone else's, on Reality T.V.? Get up off that couch!!! =) Progress; Fuselage on all three, with outside and inside nearly complete. 8 inch extended nose. FHC done. Canard finished. ERacer wings done with blended winglets. IO540 starting rebuild. Mounting Spar. Starting strake ribs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Steve Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 I think the problem some have with the stock pin arrangment is that they leave their pins to long. The pins only have to be long enough to register the attatch point. My Longeze was stock had a fixed canard cover and it just took a good thump from my hand and it popped on or off. I do not have the cover installed on the Cozy IV but I am sure that it will come off easily. I did not want to add the weight and complexity of haveing to unbolt more bolts to take the canard off. When it comes time to finish and wire and work on the plane it comes off all the time. Simple and easy is the best. Build on STeve PS. Phil: If you are dead set on making it with a bolt I could make you the rods out of aluminum also. All it takes is a lathe and some time. STeve Quote Steve Harmon Lovin Life in Idaho Cozy IV Plans #1466 N232CZ http://websites.expercraft.com/bigsteve/ Working on Chapter 19,21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cozy1200 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Phillip Johnson has documented how he used a bolt. check it out. http://www.canardzone.com/members/PhillipJohnson/Canard/canard.htm Quote Drew Chaplin (aka the Foam Whisperer) --- www.Cozy1200.com - I'm a builder now! --- Brace for impact... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Kriley Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 Thanks for the link, Drew -and yes, that's what I'm doing. The only problem I'm having is finding aluminum tubing that is 3/8" OD and 3/16" ID. Or - in reality - whatever ID will accomodate an AN-3 bolt. I'm very surprised that the only solution seems to be to make the tubes at a machine shop...? Thankfully, Richard has offered to help me out. Richard - I drilled the holes last night, and the length I need is 3 3/4" - two of them. I'll be more than happy to pay for your time and materials. Thanks! See you Tuesday! Quote Phil Kriley Cozy #1460 Chapter 13 - nose Right wing done - working on right winglet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Springer Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Thanks for the link, Drew -and yes, that's what I'm doing. The only problem I'm having is finding aluminum tubing that is 3/8" OD and 3/16" ID. Or - in reality - whatever ID will accomodate an AN-3 bolt. I'm very surprised that the only solution seems to be to make the tubes at a machine shop...? Thankfully, Richard has offered to help me out. Richard - I drilled the holes last night, and the length I need is 3 3/4" - two of them. I'll be more than happy to pay for your time and materials. Thanks! See you Tuesday! I haven't seen any 3/8" tubing available with more than a 0.065" wall (at Wicks). But, there is 5/16" tubing available with a 0.065" wall. The inner diameter is then 0.1825". You could easily open that up to 0.188" without requiring a machine shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Kriley Posted October 17, 2008 Author Share Posted October 17, 2008 I haven't seen any 3/8" tubing available with more than a 0.065" wall (at Wicks). But, there is 5/16" tubing available with a 0.065" wall. The inner diameter is then 0.1825". You could easily open that up to 0.188" without requiring a machine shop. I agree - and yet here we are - the FAQ calls out something that apparently does not exist. So I guess I'll send a note to Marc to ask him to either remove the FAQ or perhaps provide a different solution...? Bernie Sui's website mentions him having 3/8" od tubing that he had to ream out for an AN-3 bolt...but I THINK he meant an AN-4 bolt - which ALMOST fits. Quote Phil Kriley Cozy #1460 Chapter 13 - nose Right wing done - working on right winglet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Hicks Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Man, I wrote the Chapter 12 FAQ about 9 years ago when I had just finished the chapter myself. The method for this alternative approach was distilled from the archived email available at the time. The archive said "3/16 ID", so that's what got distilled. No mention was made of having to ream to get the ID. Else, I would have included that pertinent fact in the FAQs. I didn't do this method. I followed the plans. So I was not able to validate the method personally. Quote Wayne Hicks Cozy IV Plans #678 http://www.ez.org/pages/waynehicks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philc1 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Thanks for the link, Drew -and yes, that's what I'm doing. The only problem I'm having is finding aluminum tubing that is 3/8" OD and 3/16" ID. QUOTE] It looks like the original problem has been solved, but I want to call attention to a great resource for metal raw materials. OnlineMetals is a subsidiary of Northern tool. They have great selection, very quick service, and will sell in small quantities. The 3/8 OD x 3/16 ID is available in stainless or aluminum. http://www.northerntool.com/affiliates/onlinemetals/ Quote Phil Long-ez project Milwaukee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Kriley Posted October 18, 2008 Author Share Posted October 18, 2008 Thanks for the info Phil! Marc - Wayne - maybe we should add this to the FAQ for future builders? Quote Phil Kriley Cozy #1460 Chapter 13 - nose Right wing done - working on right winglet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cozy1200 Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 Thanks for the info Phil! Marc - Wayne - maybe we should add this to the FAQ for future builders? It would be great if Marc could turn the FAQ into a Wiki. Then anyone could improve it as needed. hmm... I think I just created allot more work for Marc. Quote Drew Chaplin (aka the Foam Whisperer) --- www.Cozy1200.com - I'm a builder now! --- Brace for impact... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Schubert Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 3-3/4 it is. No charge, the first one is always a freebie Quote "We choose to do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard." JFK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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