Materials Supply

[Crazycanuck]

I have a few questions about materials supply. Has anybody figured out the supply chain of the major Cozy building materials. I am trying to figure out if I can get supplies locally from a wholesale source in Canada. I know that I can get MGS Epoxy from Composites Canada, but what about forms, microspheres, and glass cloth? Has anybody figured out the where aircraft spruce is getting these materials, the spec sheets, and if the same materials are distributed under their manufacturers names? If I can establish that it is the same stuff then I will get other stuff from Composites Canada.

[rickh]

Plans BID is fairly popular, I understand you should be looking for Hexcel branded.

UNI is a tough find, I think ACS and Wicks are the two major sellers.

Foam, H-xxx series, DIAB.

Urethane is cheap regardless (though ship is a pain)

Clark Foam / Last-A-Foam is somewhat common.

Extruded polystyrene is always a topic for discussion

Nutz/boltz, AN spec.

Steels and aluminums may be sourced locally, though be sure of what you're getting.

Some have substituted plans wood products.

 

*I* find I can save a fair penny by ordering in bulk, not by the chapter. YMMV.

 

Rick

[Kent Ashton]

I suggest you'll save yourself a lot of shipping charges and trouble by ordering the whole kit from ACS or Wicks. They are geared to selling small amounts of materials to homebuilders without minimums and high cutting charges. Wicks in Illinois might be closer to you. The exception might be epoxy, but I'd still get five gallons to start with. It will come on a large pallet by truck--at least mine did. It's a considerable waste of time to order onesies and twosies and wait for materials and deal with individual companies who want to sell truckloads at a time. Stick with the homebulit suppliers.

-Kent

[emteeoh]

ACS has a canadian office, near YYZ (just off the 401 at Dixon), so you might be able to avoid shipping charges altogether.

[longez360]

Spot on Kent. You will save money and time. I did.

 

Additionally, you wont be concerned about the 100 bucks you saved on materials having unintentionally sourced the wrong material, paritcularly in that brief moment after an inflight structural failure. PLEASE ensure you use the materials and substitute materials rutan specifies/approves. Do it for your families and the innocent people we fly over.

[Crazycanuck]

Yeah, one reason is that I happen to know the owner of Composites Canada and would like to give him the business if I can. He is actually a customer of mine in another business line. He has been in the composites business for a long time and I think I could pick it up direct from his warehouse. If it's the same stuff, it's the same stuff. I just want to make sure it is in fact the same stuff.

[TMann]

When I was looking for Carbon Fiber (around May, 2007) ACS said it couldn't be had because it was being used by the military. I worked with Hexcel and got the number of the plant in Texas that actually makes the stuff. They confirmed that they had rolls of the stuff but I still had to go through a retail source. Even so, it was dropped shipped directly to me.

 

About the only way you're going to get past that retail connection would be to become a retailer youself. That involves a considerable chunk of change.

[chasingmars]

Has anybody figured out the supply chain of the major Cozy building materials. I am trying to figure out if I can get supplies locally from a wholesale source in Canada.

I'm up in Ottawa. I get my MGS (285, but it's getting ridiculously expensive so considering going to the cheaper approved MGS) and my 7715/7725 from Composites Canada, I buy the cloth by the bolt. Got my bagging supplies there too and most of my vac stuff and tools, etc. I use phenolic balloons for micro, but glass or phenolic you can get it (and flox, etc) from Composites Canada. Sometimes, it's pricier than the same item from the states, but once I figure in shipping and all that, it's usually pretty competative *as long as* you get stuff by the roll, they are not reallycompetative with ordering from the states in cut lengths usually (but to their credit, when I'm making a big purchase, they'll sometimes give me roll pricing on smaller quantities) - My last big buy was about a year ago mind you, so this is a bit dated. The 7715/7725 cloth I got from them is of BGF Industries manufacture (ACS is supposed to be Hexcel, but they are both the 7715/7725 standard style), with "504 - Volan Chrome complex finish compatible with polyester and epoxy resins" - I always check that it has that though as the BGF datasheets for this cloth inexpliably list "no finish"). I used to get my nitrile gloves there too, but I've since found them at Costco (though the price is similar) and I get them there now (just cause I tend not to plan ahead enough on consumables to line them up with my Toronto trips).

 

Metal stuff I get from the Cozy Girls. If they make it, that's where I get it/plan to get it.

 

Divinycell foam (and the small amount of wood) I ship from Wicks or ACS, whichever is more reasonable. I try to get this several chapters at a time to save on shipping. Composites canada only sells H80 by the sheet (last I checked), any other density you have to buy by the case. They had some Last-a-foam at one point, but were trying to sell off the stock and I don't think they carry it any more. Poly urethane (the really fragile friable stuff) you can get there. I'm doing some substitution of the lightweight Last-a-foam using Corecell, Noah's Marine in toronto often has off-cuts of the right density for this (forget what it was, I got it some time ago). Note that I'm *not* recommending you make material substitutions out of sourcing difficulties, I did this because I don't much like last-a-foam's friability (and crunched the numbers on the change first).

 

Brakes and tires/tubes I got from Infinity, his package deal is good (and his reputation for interminable turnaround time applies apparently to this retracts, not his brake packages, the matcos get shipped direct from matco anyhow), and Landing Gear from featherlight (long lead time on this). Speaking of long lead time, order your antenna kit from RST as soon as possible, took about 4 months before mine showed up in my mailbox one day. Customs doesn't seem to worry about the low value USPS shipped little things like the RST kit, so that can just be mailed directly without worrying about running afoul of the taxman.

 

Stuff from the US is often easiest if you live nearish the border to find a UPS store in the states that does package receipt, the one in Ogdensburg (across the boarder from the 721 km mark on the 401) does this for $5/box. I ship stuff there, then pick it up and bring it through customs at the border myself, pay my GST/PST, and go on my way, takes 5 minutes (and an hour drive each way, but I usually do it when I'm going that way anyhow). Saves a ton on courier "brokerage" fees for customs clearing that get added if you use a non-priority (i.e. less expensive) shipping method like UPS ground.

 

That's my supply chain, hope it's helpful.

[Neverquit]

My plane building buddies bought MGS in bulk from Airheart in Dundas, ON, CA. Very near Toronto. They drove up through Windsor when the exchange was better. I see C.CA. is in Missisauga. You might want to try Airheart. They only sell MGS and it'll be pretty reasonable for you if you order in 5 gal. cans. It's a father daughter business and they're very helpful.