Who has built a Defiant and a Cozy iv?

[Hans S]

I'm trying to find someone that has built both. I've got some qustions . I would rather ask them offline. Thanks.

[ZUCZZ]

Why ... offline ... ?

 

... Deprive the rest of us of the information.

 

... the chance to pull this opinion apart.

 

... voice our opinions

 

But seriously, I would like to know more about the Defiant too

[Hans S]

I hit the submit button too quick.

[Hans S]

I was kicking around the Gemini idea again and wanted to know from a "Defiant" / "Cozy" builder's standpoint how different the two planes are in the front. I didn't want to answer a bunch of questions as to why I want to do this, or hear why I shouldn't because it is impossible (Gemini, and it flew). I have a set of Cozy plans, but not Defiant. Defiant plans were pushing the $900 range the last time I checked, too much for just info purposes. If I found something useful or built one, I'd share. I can't find any information on the Gemini except for a few blurbs here and there. I'm just toying with the idea, but when people start talking heavy mods, the the threads usually get hijacked and the die hard "build it to plans" people start screaming. After that, no useful information gets passed.

[Hans S]

Doubt if I'd build a twin. But it would have cool factor.

[Edge 513]

900 buck plans too expensive?..maybe going to buy TWO engines...thinking that factor sounds "cool''...math not computing? I can only barely build up one really good engine dollarwise...let alone two...whaaaaa?...you are pulling all of my legs. Try putting petrol in two engines if you are on a budget? Must be that ''cool factor''.

[Hans S]

Edge,

 

This is why I didn't originally post my questions. You didn't read my post as it is written or the next one and then just decided to make assumptions. I wrote that it was for info only, which is why I wasn't buying Defiant plans, and that I was just toying with the idea, then you jump on me as if I am all but building already. I just was curious as to what the differences were as the Gemini is a modified long and I believe the Defiant is based on the same principals as the Long (canard, wing maybe, front gear, CG), but do YOU know exactly what went into the mod for the Gemini, not what you think or feel, could be this, could be that, whishy washy? I was looking for someone that actually had real life honest experience with both.

 

Why would I buy two engines, I already stated that I'm building a single (9:15am)?

 

I've already asked about Defiants, two engines, jets, diesels, rotaries, and a rump roast worth of other mods. If you do any kind of search on twins, it is pretty much common knowledge that more than one engine is going to cost more in engines, equipment, fuel, maintanance, ratings...

 

Then again, by not reading the posts, you put out useless information out thereby hijacking the thread for your own rants, I'm not really concerned about your economic state, if you are building a plane, you are not homeless or without food.

[Edge 513]

My rant? Jumping on you? My you are a fragile flower.

I would assume you are going to build something, not just play at farting around. Maybe with that kind of language I could start more of a rant...but I didn't..what do you think? That is sounding more confrontational to me. Good grief.

[Hans S]

No, not fragile, just frustrated at having to read through a bunch of opinions to get to anything with any real substance, (ex) that whole Eminence thing was down right irritating, I ended up not following it anymore so I don't know if anything truelly educational came from it. Many threads get hijacked on tangents. If someone wants a tangent, go to the coffee house section.

 

I was curious about a specific aspect of construction/design theory, not how expensive it would be or where I should place my $$$? I still would like to know what the reinforcements and problems that came from it. The defiant still flies and is being built, there were problems with the Gemini and as far as I know does not fly anymore and was never copied, why one and not the other.

 

I already have a plan on what mods I want in my build, two engines isn't in there, as I stated. I still think the Defiant and Gemini are cool ideas and if I was limited to the size of engine I could get, or an infinite, steady and cheap fuel supply, that might have been an option.

 

You can't be too worried about fuel costs, your monicor says Cozy540xtra, slightly more gas guzzling than stock.

 

This is a perfect example of how these threads get hi-jacked, 8-9 posts and still nothing that resembles what was originally asked for.

[Edge 513]

What gets me a bit choppy is the guys who build 'not much' if anything but fart around hypotheticlly about all their 'desired mods' and this and that. Your post #4 seemed somewhat headed there. Sorry if I was wrong, maybe you are really building something with one engine[your post #7], but then again your post #9 you talk of modifications again, as if you haven't...so you got me.

Per your last post, I guess I will post some pics of where I am in my plane work-wise, so you know I am actually building something. I am attempting to walk the talk.

Maybe you could try Marcs list to fish for Defiant builders to ask your questions....seems theres more theorizers here than builders sometimes. If you look at who is on the forum at the entry page, you will see who is on the forum..and several of the quality long term builders/fliers have been "on-line" and could have answered your thread, but chose not to for some reason. Maybe you are plumbing the wrong hole. I would have thought maybe they could have steered you to somebody who fit your first question. If they didnt, maybe they thought it wasnt worth responding to, or there are no Defiant/Cozy builders. In any case, good luck in building something.

Now that was more of a 'rant'- I think.

Oh yea, the IO540 is a stretch for me...but its what I want..and if I dont work for it it won't happen, so thats why I am building everything to that end.

Yow.

[Hans S]

What I'm building is a Cozy iv, with mods. Granted I haven't cut foam piece one yet, still trying to get the garage emptied and lurking for maybe an abandoned project within decent distance.

 

A few months ago I had a HUGE list of mods, I think I'm down to about 13. Retracts, diesel, 3-4" wider, IFR capable, baggage pods reinforcement, seat back 1.5 " back, 2" higher on the canopy, controls, IP cutout, adjustable pedals, front hinge canopy, longer strakes, A/C, and oil heat.

 

I sat in John Schneiders (thanks again John), almost stock, Cozy with him in it. The width is good until the longeron, my torso is long enough that it hits my shoulder and I think it would eventually irritate me to death, otherwise I fit everywhere else. I want the plane to fit me, not have to adjust to get comfortable.

 

I'm on the Defiant email list. I'd like to find a Gemini list, I don't think that'll happen. The Defiant is a pretty different bird than the Long and Cozy. I was just looking for what the differences were without having to go thru all the fluff that gets put on some of these threads. What kind of sub-structure did Dave Ganzer have to build to hold the extra engine weight, wood, metal, foam? The Defiants seem to be plagued with front cooling issues, was the Gemini? Not to second guess the counter-rotating prop guys, but why not the push pull design with their small suzuki engines?

 

A Harley engine can be beefed to 90hp no problem, air cooled, don't weigh much, and parts are easily available.

 

Maybe a twin for a second time around, but I'll probably build a trimaran instead.

[Jason Heath]

A Harley engine can be beefed to 90hp no problem, air cooled, don't weigh much, and parts are easily available.

Ever seen this sticker "If Harley built and airplane, would you fly in it?"

 

"Harley engine" and "no problem" should never be used in the same sentence, or even in the same book for that matter!

[Hans S]

My Buell uses a sportster engine, 95ish HP. I beat the crap out of it and never had a problem. Over 30k miles. They can be very reliable if you actually do maintanance. True the old generation motors had issues, but the new engines are much better. And I wasn't thinking a Stock Harley motor, more like every aftermarket piece that is not Harley. Screaming Eagle makes a fairly decent motor from the cases up.

[Jason Heath]

My Buell uses a sportster engine, 95ish HP. I beat the crap out of it and never had a problem. Over 30k miles. They can be very reliable if you actually do maintanance.

I've riden over 300K miles on various HD's and ALL of them have had me on the side of the road for various engine related problems, some minor, some major, all would have brought a plane out of the sky and all had been maintained incredibly well! A bad coil, crank sensor, some crappy fuel from podunk WY etc.

True the old generation motors had issues, but the new engines are much better..

And I have some ocean front property to sell you!

And I wasn't thinking a Stock Harley motor, more like every aftermarket piece that is not Harley. Screaming Eagle makes a fairly decent motor from the cases up.

Neither was I, Harley is Screamin' Eagle btw and to get that HP your talking about you have to run the engine at 3500-4000 rpm or more from a big bore, big dollar engine (well over 10k) that doesn't want to spend much time there = not so reliable!

[Hans S]

Use what you want, 30k was just on this particular bike, not all my riding. Yeah, SE is Harley, but at least the parts from their performance shop are a little more robust. Never had any of my bikes leave me on the side of the road, don't know what to tell you. Bad speedometer sending unit has been my only problem, still ran fine, just didn't know how fast I was going.

 

A stock tube frame Buell had 91hp at 6800RPM, these were hopped up sportser engines, Harley supplied them. Mine is warmed up with exhaust, rejetting, KN filter and ignition box. I'm getting a little more than stock.

 

And no, I wouldn't fly with a stock Harley, but I wouldn't have a problem with it if I built it. $10k? I can build cheaper. But again, not what I'm going to use.

 

And the new engines are much better than the pans, knuckles, shovels of the past.

 

Don't need ocean front, I live on the Gulf.

[brainfart]

BMW engine. Just mentioning it since you might not have heard of it yet.

 

 

http://www.spang-air.de/willkommen/BMW_Engine/bmw_engine.html (in English)

 

about 100hp (with motorcycle exhaust muffler), runs on regular auto fuel, 3gal/hr@75%, widely available...

 

Just saying.

[Hans S]

Cool! I like it.

[Edge 513]

What I'm building is a Cozy iv, with mods. Granted I haven't cut foam piece one yet,

 

A few months ago I had a HUGE list of mods, I think I'm down to about 13. Retracts, diesel, 3-4" wider, IFR capable, baggage pods reinforcement, seat back 1.5 " back, 2" higher on the canopy, controls, IP cutout, adjustable pedals, front hinge canopy, longer strakes, A/C, and oil heat.

 

 

A Harley engine can be beefed to 90hp no problem, air cooled, don't weigh much, and parts are easily available.

 

Maybe a twin for a second time around, but I'll probably build a trimaran instead.

Man- I dunno where to start without sounding funky. I think from your posts you will find some reality, somewhere down the line. Its hard to finish a stock Cozy- let alone your seemingly 'shortened list. I had about 2 large paragraphs written and posted...but I came back and deleted them....I just didn't think they were constructive. I don't know you, maybe you are a 'finisher' and not the typical 'dreamer'. Good luck.

[Hans S]

All the mods, except for the diesel have been done and documented. If I come across a project before the garage is emptied, then great, otherwise I'll start from scratch.

 

The twin thing was just curiousity as to what the involvment went to design the Defiant and Gemini from the single engine variety and how much structurally had to be added, this foam constructioin is some tuff stuff. My favorite trimarans are foam core and they take some ABUSE smacking around in the water with a mast and sail trying to rip them in half. Even the crashes and gear up landings don't seem to obliterate these planes.

 

The dreaming part is pretty much over. I knew that the build could take years, so I wanted do do any mods the first time. I didn't want to have any rework or wishing I had added something. Once built, my wife will probably bury me in it. If you look at some of my original posts on this site, I think in concepts, you'd really think I was nuts, a removable wing trailerable cozy. The dreams, the dreams.

[TMann]

I heard a rumor that there was a tin Velocity in the works.

[emteeoh]

For varying definitions of "in the works". Also, the model they have in the office is, IMO, butt ugly.

[Edge 513]

I heard a rumor that there was a tin Velocity in the works.

THATis the most bizarre thing I have heard, in a long time. They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Hans- the trick is just to not get buried in it HALF FINISHED!!!! At the rate some build a stock Cozy [dang I hate that name], your list could take you into your twilight years.

And also the trick is to not loop so many of your "improvements " in it at one time that you have an unmanageable test platform. Test known airframe with unknown engine, but not vice versa. Better to test known engine with minor changed airframe IMHO.

There, I am putting my soapbox next to the lampost....

.....and going to go look for some Raspberry lemonade now, thankyou.

[brainfart]

Sorry, off-topic, but since Hans might like it, too:

 

http://www.spang-air.de/Marville_Feb_08_-_2.jpg

 

3cyl. VW TDI diesel engine. This engine, when used in the VW Lupo, resulted in the world's first car in series production consuming as little as 3 litres of fuel per 100 kilometres (78 miles per US gallon) back in 1998. Now it's flying.

[Hans S]

I like tinkering and thinking outside the box with just about anything. The whole experimental aviation is based on it.

 

And thanks to all those that got a hold of me offline. I liked the history and development. It seems that Burt built the Defiant after helping Dave design the Gemini.