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#41 Jeffrey Test

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 07:28 PM

G'day Today I managed to epoxy the elevator foam cores to the elevator tubes. I clamped the tubes to steel beams covered with plastic. I then made some wed micro and costed inside the foam cores. I then attached the foam cores to the alodined elevator tubes. I have attached a couple of pictures. Jeff

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  • elev tubes 2.JPG
  • elev tubes 1.JPG


#42 TMann

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Posted 27 December 2008 - 08:52 PM

G'day

Yesterday, I had a couple of hours to Alodine the Elevator Tubes. I went to the hardware store and purchased two 10' PVC electrical ..........

I found a faster way to get the same effect ........... I called the Cozy Girrrls. It only took about 10 minutes. :D

It looks like you're making great progress Jeff. I've been plotting out my long nose configuration in CAD. I had to drag out my plotter and get that setup but now I have my NG30 cut out as well as the FS 0.0 bulkhead.

I'll be starting my elevators this coming week as well.

You're keeping me motivated! Hopefully we can show off our birds at Rough River 2009!
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4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done

#43 Martin Fryer

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 06:32 PM

G'day

Today I managed to epoxy the elevator foam cores to the elevator tubes. I clamped the tubes to steel beams covered with plastic. I then made some wed micro and costed inside the foam cores. I then attached the foam cores to the alodined elevator tubes. I have attached a couple of pictures.

Jeff


Perhaps it is my eyes, or perhaps the photo. I don't see the insert cutouts in the torque tubes. Are you building a GU canard or Roncz?

#44 Jeffrey Test

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 06:48 PM

Perhaps it is my eyes, or perhaps the photo. I don't see the insert cutouts in the torque tubes. Are you building a GU canard or Roncz?


G'day mfryer

I am building a Roncz canard. You are correct the cutouts are not in the tubes. The plans don't call for the cut outs to be cut into the tube until after the skins are layed up.

Jeff

#45 Jeffrey Test

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 06:56 PM

G'day I managed to get the top skins layup applied today. I have attached a couple of pictures. I welcome constructive comments. Jeff

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  • IMG_0822small.JPG
  • IMG_0821small.JPG


#46 Rick Hall

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 07:33 PM

I welcome constructive comments.

Jeff


STOP!

Speaking out of my blow-hole, it looks like your plans say the elevators are connected together with a straight tube... everything is inline.

You'd be wise to look at how the Cozy-IV elevators are constructed. I think this is an approved mod for LE's too. There's an offset in the tube, right where it passes through the fuse sidewalls. Advantage is there is almost no air blowing inside from around the torque tube.

As far as the elevator hinge inserts installed later.... that don't seam rite ether.

But I'm building a Cozy, so...

Rick
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Build status: 1-7, bits of 8-9, 10, 14 done! Working on engine/prop/avionics.


#47 Martin Fryer

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 07:43 PM

G'day mfryer

I am building a Roncz canard. You are correct the cutouts are not in the tubes. The plans don't call for the cut outs to be cut into the tube until after the skins are layed up.

Jeff


The plans call for the tubes to me machined and the NC-2 inserts should be riveted in place. These steps are described at the very beginning of the elevators section of the Roncz canard plans. With the elevators all glassed up, how do you intend to rivet the NC-2 inserts?

Perhaps someone might be able to find a way to machine and install the inserts with the foam and glass inplace, however I fear you may have to do them over again.

#48 Lynn Erickson

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Posted 28 December 2008 - 09:09 PM

G'day mfryer

I am building a Roncz canard. You are correct the cutouts are not in the tubes. The plans don't call for the cut outs to be cut into the tube until after the skins are layed up.

Jeff

I believe they are talking about the hinge cutouts about 1/4" wide that are cut after the skin is applied. the cutouts in the aluminum tube about 3/4" wide are to install the pivot inserts and need to be done before the tube is installed into the elevator. hinge points need to be aligned with the angle fixtures to locate the hinge point correctly in the elevator. if you did not cut the slots in the aluminum tube and rivet in the inserts and you would remember that job, check the plans again.
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#49 Jeffrey Test

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 07:23 PM

STOP!

Speaking out of my blow-hole, it looks like your plans say the elevators ...
Rick



G'day all OPEN EZ Builders

First I want to thank Rick and several other folks in this forum. You may have just saved my arse! I managed to do a real OMG! It seems I used the TERF CD LONGEZ Chapter 10 & 11 to build my Roncz Canard and elevator. PLEASE NOTE all OPEN EZ Builders to use the Roncz Canard instructions posted in another .PDF on the TERF CD. If you don't you just may DIE.

Please take a few minutes and look at the last two months postings.... They will need to be redone. I do not trust my life with them. I think the canard is good, but not willing to die if it isn't.

Oh, I do think we need to rewrite Chapters 10 & 11 and get them posted in the OPEN EZ project. I feel kind of stupid, but I hope somebody else doesn't make this mistake.

Thanks again for the folks that pointed out that my bacon was hanging out. Now I will need to pony up the money to make another canard.

This is one big do over..... I guess it is cheap compared to cashing in the chips early.

Oh, I have ordered the Parts from the Cozy Girrls. You were right again TMann. I will cut the foam cores this weekend.

Jeff

#50 Rick Hall

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 09:40 PM

... Oh, I do think we need to rewrite Chapters 10 & 11 and get them posted in the OPEN EZ project.


My data may be old, but the Open-EZ drawings I have appear to be the GU canard. I grabbed them in Oct of 2006, from a file named: Open-EZDrawingsRev5.zip". The files are of the form: "Open-EZ r5 a"x".tif" (or pdf, depending).

Nice save though, recreating the canard (and elevators) is relatively minor $ in the grand scheme of things.

Rick
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Build status: 1-7, bits of 8-9, 10, 14 done! Working on engine/prop/avionics.


#51 TMann

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Posted 29 December 2008 - 10:04 PM

I'm not sure ....... but I think I got these template drawings from PTM at some point.

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T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18
Velocity/RG N951TM
Mann's Airplane Factory
We add rocket's to everything!
4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done

#52 Jeffrey Test

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 05:15 PM

G'day Well, I have started to move forward again... I think. Last week the parts arrived and I started to rebuild the elevators with the correct plans this time. Oh, if you haven't figured it out; REMOVE Chapter 10 & 11 from the TERF CD plans.....or risk my mistake.... As I said, I am strting to make progress again. I have attached a couple of pictures. The inserts needed a little sizing to fit. I used my perma grit to sand/file a little off the four corners and they just managed to push in on the iron beam. I pushed from the back of the tube with my hand with the insert on the beam. I then used the 1/8" drill bit to drill the holes in the tube and inserts. I then pop riveted with a 43 rivet the inserts into place. (Sorry I didn't get a picture of the rivet) I used a hand rivet gun and it worked very well. I then used some 5 minute epoxy to seal the seams. After the epoxy hardened I sanded the extra epoxy off. I then alodined the tubes because the sanding had removed some of the treatment. Here are a few pics. I welcome constructive comments. Jeff

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_0834sm.JPG
  • IMG_0835sm.JPG
  • IMG_0830sm.JPG


#53 Martin Fryer

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 09:45 PM

G'day

Well, I have started to move forward again... I think. Last week the parts arrived and I started to rebuild the elevators with the correct plans this time. Oh, if you haven't figured it out; REMOVE Chapter 10 & 11 from the TERF CD plans.....or risk my mistake....

Jeff


Don't throw those chapters away. The Special performace canard (Roncz) plans do make a few references to those chapters.

Read through the entire Roncz plans and CP changes before starting on the new canard.

#54 Jeffrey Test

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 09:53 PM

G'day mfryer Nope, did trow them out, but I did put them behind the Roncz and AeroCanard plans.... I think the AeroCanard plans are the best written, but if the Open EZ gets some plans written I would recommend a rewrite of Chapters 10 & 11. Thanks again; Jeff

#55 Rick Hall

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 10:20 PM

Jeff:

Here are a few pics. I welcome constructive comments.


Since I'll be starting my elevators shortly...

1) Don't forget to file a small slot in the tube, to match up with the inserts. This may not be clear now, but will be when you jig them to the table to bond them to the elevator cores... and later with the other half of the elevator hinges.

2) Do you think you'll need to lightly peen the head of the rivet over, in order to get the tube to slide easily into the cores?

Rick
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Build status: 1-7, bits of 8-9, 10, 14 done! Working on engine/prop/avionics.


#56 TMann

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 11:08 PM


2) Do you think you'll need to lightly peen the head of the rivet over, in order to get the tube to slide easily into the cores?

Wayne Hicks wrote something up on this part. (NOTE: I have not done my elevators yet.) He suggests cutting back the foam that wraps aroung the tube. There is a point that you sand back to so you end up fighting to get the tube to fit into the foam...... only to sand it away.

Check his web site (smart guy, that Wayne, Lot's of good stuff there.)
T Mann - Loooong-EZ/20B Infinity R/G Chpts 18
Velocity/RG N951TM
Mann's Airplane Factory
We add rocket's to everything!
4, 5, 6, 7, 8. 9, 10, 14, 19, 20 Done

#57 Cozy Girrrl

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Posted 20 January 2009 - 11:09 PM

Don't worry about the rivet, the foam won't notice it. Jeffrey, looking good!
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#58 Rick Hall

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 12:54 AM

Don't worry about the rivet, the foam won't notice it.


Elevator template 'hole' appears to be 13/16", the tork toob is 1". Can't remember the website, but someone ran his cores through an Onsrud CNC panel cutter (fer kitchen cabinet doors, etc.), then cut the 1" hole/slot with a ball end end mill on a router table.

Though not beyond my capabilities to do the above, I figure (from the plans pix) the foam tips at the hole get sanded to blend into the tube. Any rivet will make its own path through the foam, and will be buried anyway. I was concerned it may snag/tear as it passes through.

Rick
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Build status: 1-7, bits of 8-9, 10, 14 done! Working on engine/prop/avionics.


#59 Jeffrey Test

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 06:24 AM

Jeff:



Since I'll be starting my elevators shortly...

1) Don't forget to file a small slot in the tube, to match up with the inserts. This may not be clear now, but will be when you jig them to the table to bond them to the elevator cores... and later with the other half of the elevator hinges.

2) Do you think you'll need to lightly peen the head of the rivet over, in order to get the tube to slide easily into the cores?

Rick


G'day Rick

1) Thanks, I saw that. I was going to use my small square perma-grit file to sand the notch down.

2) I guess I could drill that 1' hole and then cut that scrap 2"X4" to make a small jig to hammer the rivet head round and smooth. I will get some pictures of the rivet before and after. I don't think the foam will be damaged. The insides get covered with micro anyway. I have doen the micro the tube into the foam once already (practice, Yeah! practice.... that's the ticket practice. I have a hanger full of practice parts.....).

Thanks

Jeff

#60 Cozy Girrrl

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 01:23 PM

I think the burnback from the hotwie works out about 1" dia. Try not to overthink it :)
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