Custom Canopy

[jpolenek]

While intending to stick with the plans as much as possible, one modification that I do want to make is to re-shape the canopy for more side-to-side headroom. (Cozy MKIV). There are limitations to what shapes can be achieved by free-blowing, so drape moulding may be the way to go. (i.e. moulding the plastic directly over a male plug.)

 

I tried to email Todd Silver of Todds Canopies numerous times but never got a reply. However, based on his website, drape moulding may not be one of his capabilities anyway.

 

I called Airplane Plastics, the "approved" canopy supplier for Cozys. Jeff Rogers was extremely helpful and took his time to explain his processes. Unfortunately, he doesn't do drape moulding either. His way of getting custom shapes is to use the plug to build a 1/4" thick fiberglass female mould, build a steel frame around it, and vacuum-form the plastic into that. This process is somewhat more complex and is really intended for mass production, so it is cost prohibitive for a one-off for the average person.

 

There must be a poor man's way of drape moulding a canopy and achieving decent optics if enough time and care is taken. I'd like to build the plug to the right shape and then either give it to a shop that will mould it for me (at a reasonable price), or use some home-made techniques to do it.

 

Can somebody direct me to a resource for learning how to do this?

- someone who has done this themselves with good results?

- a mould shop that has this capability?

- an EAA advisor who can point me in the right direction (I am a member.)

- books, websites, etc.

 

Joe Polenek

[TMann]

Joe, have you checked out some of the other styles of canopies?

Texas Canopy?

Is the Aerocad canopy different from the Cozy spec?

[magnum]

Heres a prety good article. I'm going to do mine this way

Press on

Tom

http://www.solanopilots.com/eaahomebuilders%20projects%20pages.htm

[Jon Matcho]

Woah... do your own canopy? That's ambitious, no? What's your motivation?

 

You can get any shape or size out of www.toddscanopies.com. You and he may need to work out a custom jig, but I'd partner up w/Todd on a custom canopy project if I were me.

 

Press on is right!

[TMann]

While some of these canopy manufacturers can make the shape you want, it will be important to also maintain optical clarity.

 

Magnum (Tom) excellent post on the drape molding. It makes me a bit curious as to whether or not I could adapt my Vacuum Bagging system to vacuum form my covers for my strobe/position light covers.

[jpolenek]

Joe, have you checked out some of the other styles of canopies?

Texas Canopy?

Is the Aerocad canopy different from the Cozy spec?

OK. It's time to let the cat out of the bag. The attached photo shows what I'm going for. In addition to the canopy shape, the nose is also different, and the turtleback needs to be matched. (Disregard the air scoop on the bottom - it was just drawn in for looks.) This is why merely adjusting an existing canopy will not work. It is going to require a custom job.

 

Free blowing could work for this, but it may further reduce the headroom. (Still need to work that out with a 3D CAD model.) I'm thinking that moulding the canopy would have the best chance of producing the exact shape that's needed, including widening the top for more headroom.

 

This is just a concept until I can figure out if there are processes that will give me the canopy shape I need. If I can get that, the rest should be achievable. I'm giving myself 2 years to figure it all out and re-do the drawings accordingly, which is why I'm building the wings first. After I finish the wings, if I've determined that it can't be done, I'll have to bail out and revert back to the plans design.

 

Joe Polenek

 

[Nathan Gifford]

Todd has what is called a Texas canopy for the Cozy MKIV. It is pretty simple to widen the canopy. Wayne Hicks wrote some tips on how to do this and I have them around here. I think the file is 2.5MBs less if you already have PowerPoint. If you want them, send me a PM with your e-mail and I will send them to you.

 

I agree with the other posters here. Check with Todd...the man knos what he is doing and you are not going to find a better price either. He is not going to show you how he does his work, but you could not do it for what he will charge you.

[jpolenek]

Does anybody know whose Cozy this is and how they made the canopy?

 

Joe Polenek

[Edge 513]

OK. It's time to let the cat out of the bag. The attached photo shows what I'm going for. In addition to the canopy shape, the nose is also different, and the turtleback needs to be matched. (Disregard the air scoop on the bottom - it was just drawn in for looks.) This is why merely adjusting an existing canopy will not work. It is going to require a custom job.

 

Free blowing could work for this, but it may further reduce the headroom. (Still need to work that out with a 3D CAD model.) I'm thinking that moulding the canopy would have the best chance of producing the exact shape that's needed, including widening the top for more headroom.

 

 

 

Joe Polenek

 

[ATTACH]753[/ATTACH]

Not to burst your bubble...but that cat has been in my bag for a long time. Below is my sketch from last spring and my mock-up photo. I had the new canopy ordered and was going to scrap the plans one. Try as one might-You will find not much hasn't been thought of or done by someone else before. I would say, forget your fancy 3d cad and whatnot...just start building and when you get to chapter 13 and you need to start working on plans for the canopy. I'll give you who to contact and the whole banana. There is a lot to this, but it ends up being pretty simple once you have things built.

Oh, pretty simple is a misnomer-homer...I scrapped it after spending all the research and design effort... I told Marc that if I kept up all my "simple changes" it would add years to my building and I want to fly sooner than later. I kept my FHC direction, but ex'ed on this wide Long EZE style full canopy design. Plan on lots of CF uni work. Theres many cons to this "appearance mod" performance wise. But it is doable. It is not hard, really, by the time you have built through chap 13, you have the skill set to understand what is really doable and how to do it. It is just time..time..time, you may get to a point where you finally say...enough of this dreaming on paper...its easy on paper- but it translates into TIME and delays to build it. Everything interacts with everything else. 'Course then again, maybe you have more of a builder mentality timewise, and flying sooner than later isn't an issue. Let me just say that Lynn Erickson hit it on the head, when we were in his hanger looking at his plane and he asked me where I was building-wise. His response was.."Nobody really imagines just how much work in the fuselage. It is the hardest part- there is so much to it. The wings are easy. Its the Fuselage that takes forever". I concur. After you have been here, you possibly will also.

[jpolenek]

I scrapped it after spending all the research and design effort...

Edge513;

Thanks for your feedback and advice. (Nice sketch too!)

Did you abandon the modification strictly because of the time it would add to the build, or did you run into some major roadblock(s) that could not be resolved?

Who was to be the fabricator of the canopy? Did they foresee any issues in producing the shape you wanted?

 

Joe Polenek

[rnbraud]

Dangit Edge,

 

I had just convinced myself that I didn't need sliding front and rear canopies :yikes: and "setteled" for a FHC canopy.

 

 

Now I see yours and it got me debating the issue again.

 

I too am curious about the "complexity" issue which made you abandon your approach?

 

I am also curious who made the canopy for you?

 

Thanks.

 

I will be back to discuss this later.

[Cozy Girrrl]

The picture of the plane taxiing looks like Buly's, it was a Lancair canopy.

...Chrissi

[emteeoh]

Vacuforming

 

I dont think its as tough or expensive as you beleive. Check out www.501st.com, and do google searches for making stormtrooper armor. Its very easy to build a vacuform table, and then sculpt a mold from plaster. I suspect you'd need a larger table to make windshields than what the costumers are doing, but that means 2 things:

1) more or bigger shopvacs

2) more or bigger heating elements. (I wouldn't try to just use a heat gun, its too uneven)

 

If you're willing to go to the effort to build your own plane, and redesign significant elements, I don't think that the vacuforming of the canopy will be much of a roadblock.

 

There's a really good book on the subject that I have somewhere. I'll post the name etc when I find it in this mess I call home.

[Marc Zeitlin]

Vacuforming.

Forming optical grade 1/4" or 3/16" thick acrylic canopies and vacuumforming 0.080" ABS are completely different animals. If you attempt to vacuform 1/4" acrylic over some sort of plaster mold, you'll end up with a very expensive piece of useless, lumpy, wavy acrylic.

[TMann]

Forming optical grade 1/4" or 3/16" thick acrylic canopies and vacuumforming 0.080" ABS are completely different animals. If you attempt to vacuform 1/4" acrylic over some sort of plaster mold, you'll end up with a very expensive piece of useless, lumpy, wavy acrylic.

Agreed! If you want to attemt something along these lines, try shaping covers for things like landing lights, etc where optical clarity is not as critical.

Leave the canopy for the pros. I would not attempt this unless you were planning on starting a business. I could finish 3 chapters in less time than you can destroy a sheet of acrylic.

[jpolenek]

The picture of the plane taxiing looks like Buly's, it was a Lancair canopy.

...Chrissi

Airliners.net says its registration is LX-INT. Couldn't find any other info on it.

 

Joe Polenek

[emteeoh]

Agreed! If you want to attemt something along these lines, try shaping covers for things like landing lights, etc where optical clarity is not as critical.

Leave the canopy for the pros. I would not attempt this unless you were planning on starting a business. I could finish 3 chapters in less time than you can destroy a sheet of acrylic.

Well, I was working with 1/8" ABS, but I'll take Marc's claims about the relative difficulty of working with acrylic. Based on that, I think its pretty clear that, *IF* I'd tried, I would have ruined the acrylic in a short afternoon. Can you really do 3 chapters that fast?

[TMann]

Well, I was working with 1/8" ABS, but I'll take Marc's claims about the relative difficulty of working with acrylic. Based on that, I think its pretty clear that, *IF* I'd tried, I would have ruined the acrylic in a short afternoon. Can you really do 3 chapters that fast?

........ okay, you tell me when to start!

[CFernandez]

Joe,

 

The Cozy looks like it might be a Classic. It looks similar to Mark Scaglia's Classic on Marc's cozybuilders.org site.

 

The canopy on the SX300 looks like it may give you the look/room you're looking for. http://www.sx300group.org/

[Juhl-EZ]

Does anybody know whose Cozy this is and how they made the canopy?

 

Joe Polenek

Hi Joe,

Sory no, but check out this HP for inspiration - quite similar in appereance: http://www.cozy.it/Italiano/Scaglia/Scaglia.htm

 

Regards,

Henrik

[nadt770]

Scroll down(pages 1&2) in this post to see an interesting Cozy canopy mod. Squared off and flush with fuse. sides. http://www.canardzone.com/forum/showthread.php?t=299

http://www.canardzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=27&d=1051214628

http://www.canardzone.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=37&d=1051216013

[SHallFly]

Talk to Al at Aerocad. He has the canopy/wind shield you are looking for!

It is the on for my canard.

 

Tell him Steve Hall sent you.

 

Steve

[Edge 513]

For lack of a place to put this, I'll post it here. Some pics of my Edges EZ hinges for the FHC iteration. The shocks go under and forward vaguely similar to Lynns incredible EVOeze- thats for that visit Lynn =]. In my mind this way the shock pressure is a bit more constant than top mounting the shooks [when they get towards horizontal]. A guy has to calculate for the shock pressure- but since I am only lifting the front half of the canopy-not the rear passenger part- the front lifting canopy is much less profile and weight. The best part is the shocks are hidden.

I should say that the drawing as a near first gen one, and I altered it further.

The under shock idea was pioneered by Lynn Erickson, and I have adapted the concept to the MarkIV. Just posting this to show others a jumping off point for their own ideas. Maybe others dont want to do the FHC with Uli style top mounted shocks and here is something to chew on for you....

[Big Steve]

Edge:

 

You do nice work: The whole hinge gas shock thing is pure genius. Cant wait to see how it works and what it looks like. Build on STeve:D

[michaelj]

I was able to get a custom canopy from Todd back a few years ago. It is a one off design of my own (not an EZ). After consulting with Todd, I sent him full size drawings of the canopy shape. He pulled it off and it looks great. The price was not cheap but the quality justified it.