Aileron control system slop

[ibmagman]

help!

 

I am ready for first flight after extensive modifications and repairs to a Long-EZ I purchased. I rebuilt the aileron controls AFT of the firewall using steel and rebuilt the ailerons using 7/16 mass balance rods. I got the aileron controls all rigged over the weekend and I have aileron control system slop. One aileron can be moved up and down (travel) at the trailing edge almost 1/16" - 1/8" (total up/down travel) before the other aileron begins to move. If I wiggle the stick left/right agressively I can hear the aileron torque tube knock and rattle in the phenolic bearing. There is not much play when wiggling the torque tube in the phenolic locally but there is obviously enough slop to compound this to the condition described. Has any one else noticed this level of control system slop? I am hoping to find a way to fix this by removing the aileron and torque tube but NOT removing the wings if possible. Any input or suggestions welcome.

 

Thanks

 

Steve

[Waiter]

Get someone to hold one aileron (i.e. left) with the trailing edges of the wing lined up. Now move the other aileron, measure how far the training edge can move up.

 

The trailing edges should be rigged so that when both ailerons are lifted at the same time, the trailing edges will be slightly above the trailing edge. (This is called pre-loading)

 

Did you replace the phenolic bearings? You may consider changing them out. This could be done without removing the wings. I would consider either the roller bearing replacements, or if you have access to Delrin and can make your own, I have over 2600 hours on my Delrin bearings with no sign of wear.

 

 

Waiter

[longez360]

Agree with Waiter. Delrin is perfect for this job. I have hand made Delrin spherical bearings, per the CSA newsletter, made by Rick Girard. I have a nice tight system, with nil friction.

[jpolenek]

Can somebody tell me how many of the $52 spherical bearings sold by Infinity Aerospace I'll need in total for my Cozy wings and canard? Are these easily adapted to the plans in lieu of the phenolic bearings?

Joe

[Lynn Erickson]

Can somebody tell me how many of the $52 spherical bearings sold by Infinity Aerospace I'll need in total for my Cozy wings and canard? Are these easily adapted to the plans in lieu of the phenolic bearings?

Joe

I don't know why you need any. I have 500 hrs. on the stock phenolic bearings and have no slop. the fancy expensive bearings are just that, a waste of money for you andare sold to make someone else richer.

[Cozy Girrrl]

....and are sold to make someone else richer.

Lynn, I am not offended but I am laughing quite a bit. We will never get rich off of any of the products we manufacture. In order to bring any of the components we sell down to realistic homebuilder prices we have to make many of them in one batch. Often we have to buy a lot of material, in the case of bearings or other off the shelf parts we may have to meet minimum buy requirements to obtain them from distributors rather than retailers, things like rough blanks for bearing housings may require we have a minimum of 200 or an 1/8th sheet. Then days of machining, finally off to the platers, again about a $200 minimum charge for plating so you have to make about 200 pieces to make it worthwhile. So lets say we are now the proud owners of 200 bearing assemblies and we know they are not going to just fly off the shelf. That represents a considerable amount of time and money we have wrapped up in parts. Regardless how long they sit there the pricing is based on tracking production time, material costs and services used, a formula is applied for overhead and markup. So please do not assume we are getting rich from any of this.

Regards, Chrissi & Randi

[TMann]

Can somebody tell me how many of the $52 spherical bearings sold by Infinity Aerospace I'll need in total for my Cozy wings and canard?

Joe

Yes. Contact JD @ Infinity. If you call him, make it after around 2:00 PM Pacific Time. He can get you squared away.

[Lynn Erickson]

Lynn, I am not offended but I am laughing quite a bit. We will never get rich off of any of the products we manufacture. In order to bring any of the components we sell down to realistic homebuilder prices we have to make many of them in one batch. Often we have to buy a lot of material, in the case of bearings or other off the shelf parts we may have to meet minimum buy requirements to obtain them from distributors rather than retailers, things like rough blanks for bearing housings may require we have a minimum of 200 or an 1/8th sheet. Then days of machining, finally off to the platers, again about a $200 minimum charge for plating so you have to make about 200 pieces to make it worthwhile. So lets say we are now the proud owners of 200 bearing assemblies and we know they are not going to just fly off the shelf. That represents a considerable amount of time and money we have wrapped up in parts. Regardless how long they sit there the pricing is based on tracking production time, material costs and services used, a formula is applied for overhead and markup. So please do not assume we are getting rich from any of this.

Regards, Chrissi & Randi

the question I answered was not about how much they cost to build or the fact that getting rich in avation terms means that you can only buy lunch or dinner but not both. the question was how many of infinity's bearings do I need and I repeat, none. Now if a builder wants to use this type of bearing made by some competant parts manufacturer who has many flight test hours on there product and the builder has the money to waste who am I to say don't do it. If they are building on a bugget then they should spend the money on parts that will make it fly first and then on parts that make it look cool if they can afford it.

[Waiter]

I think the number is TWO. BUT check with JD.

 

one on each wing, I'm not sure if you can (should) use the same bearing in the fuselage. If so, theres one in the front seat and one in the rear seat.

 

With that said, You may also consider Delrin and make your own. During my original construction, instead of phenolic, I made all the stock phenolic bearings out of Delrin.

 

After 2600 hours of operation, I still have zero backlash or wear on any of the Delrin Bearings.

 

Delrin has lubrication and wear properties similar to Teflon, but is machinable and thermally stable. Excellent for our application.

 

Waiter

[Cozy Girrrl]

I guess y'all were not at Rough River then.

JD's spherical bearings are for the wing roots because the aileron tube moves in three ways; it rotates, it swings for and aft slightly and it pumps in and out a tiny bit. JD's bearings take care of all of those issues.

 

Now I have talked to someone who uses a regular bearing there and says that the glass it is mounted to will absorb the other movements but I don't necessarly feel that is th mos elegant way to go about it.

 

We used those in our wing roots and had heard enough anecdotal information about the phenolic bearings we skipped that and went straight to delrin bearings for the cockpit. Still not the quality of feel we were after so we machined some holders for sealed ball bearings, they were yummy (technical term). We decided to put those into production and did so, along with precision centerless ground steel tubes to go through them.

 

That left the firewall bushings. Now we have replacements for those as well and they are very ez to retrofit if you can fit a 90 deg drill there or have your engine mount off.

 

Both of our bearings are made to retrofit in place of the phenolic ones, same size, same mounting holes.

Firewall bearing shown below, unable to get forum to accept other pictures.

[Cozy Girrrl]

Apparently there is a limit to picture file size so I have to do this the hard way; here is another:

Hmmmmm... pictures not attaching, oh well.

OK, now I understand, picture files can only be uploaded once, they are already on our CG Parts forum section of this forum so you will have to go over there to see the goodies.

...Chrissi