ibis

[johno]

Are there any others out there interested in a smaller wood constructed canard plane,i have started building an ibis. It seems that most people are interested in either.Long EZ,Cozy or the E-Racer.

[Jon Matcho]

Sure, we're interested -- it's an interesting airplane, and this is the Canard Zone, so why not?

 

The IBIS is almost a great plane for the new Sport Pilot rule in the U.S., but just misses the requirements on a few specs. It's light enough, a two-place, but is just a bit too fast.

 

So please, do feel free to talk about your project here. I moved this message to this IBIS sub forum. Why don't you get things started by posting a pic or two of your project there?

[Spodman]

Is a sexy little beast, and you can paint it bright red without the designer cacking himself!

[Don Woodward]

Hi All

 

What is an Ibis

 

Cheers Don

[Jon Matcho]

Here's a link to the IBIS site: http://www.junqua-aircraft.com

[macleodm3]

Thats a great looking airplane... If there wasn't a Cozy I'd consider this little beauty.

[karoliina]

In EU the IBIS could fit into ultralight b category if

the stall speed would be lower. There is no top speed limit

for ultra-b class in EU and therefore the top speed is no problem, only weight and stall speeds are. In order to fit into that category, IBIS should be modified perhaps so that it would utilize flaps (similarly to

Rutan's Beech Starship), otherwise the 65 km/h stall speed

will not be met (all other ultralights do it similarly, they normally stall at higher speeds, but with full flaps the speed have been able to lowered to the required range).

 

In fact, a modified IBIS that would be composite instead of wooden

design, and would utilize flaps similar to Beech starship and would

have empty weight under 285 kg, and would use 80 hp

Rotax 912ULS engine would be quite nice. If someone can accomplish that, I think there

would be many many builders out there thorough the Europe.

In fact, my proposal would be on the other hand, more like

ultralight Long-EZ combined with Starship features than IBIS.

[Don Woodward]

Dear All

 

I thourght the French has style ! but the Ibis look like a dog

[Jon Matcho]

In fact, my proposal would be on the other hand, more like

ultralight Long-EZ combined with Starship features than IBIS.

I think this is a very interesting idea, but would like for the seating to be side-by-side instead of as we have with the Long-EZ and Ibis. Who's got the CAD system?

 

...the Ibis look like a dog

I don't think it looks that bad. Sure, a Long-EZ looks much better, to me at least, but I think just changing the shape of the rudders on the Ibis would do wonders. They're also hampered by using that stuff from trees -- I think it's called 'wood', which imposes some of the shape on the plane.

[karoliina]

Quote:

>In fact, my proposal would be on the other hand, more like

>ultralight Long-EZ combined with Starship features than IBIS.

 

I think this is a very interesting idea, but would like for the seating to be side-by-side instead of as we have with the Long-EZ and Ibis. Who's got the CAD system?

 

I wish it would be that easy...

 

Anyway, if someone has that knowledge (about aerodynamics),

I think it would be a great idea.

 

Here is the list of wished specs:

- 450 ... 550 kg TOW

- max 285 kg empty weight (excluding fuel)

- all composite design

- buble canopy

- two seated, preferably side by side

- Starship-style flaps

- stall speed with flaps max 65 km/h

- stall speed without flaps can be higher

[Jules]

I've just found this forum. I am building an IBIS. No action for the last two months due to low ambient temps (-10 deg C), but its warming up now and I can get on with the fuselage construction. I am English and live in France not far from Jean-Claude Junqua and have seen his IBIS last year with the new installation of the Jabiru engine.

[Avi005]

Hi, new to this and comtemplating building a IBIS in India. Send so many emails without any response and putting me off as to the kind of support available on this. Can any of the builders on this contact me ?

 

I am planning to put in a Suzuki 1.3 engine and what does the manual or drawing say on the redrive? Can a 1.7 common rail diesel also be tried.

 

Anybody trying for reduced stall and landing speed?

 

Thanks for responding for a newbie from the Sunny India.

[kumaros]

Hi, new to this and comtemplating building a IBIS in India. Send so many emails without any response and putting me off as to the kind of support available on this. Can any of the builders on this contact me ?

 

I am planning to put in a Suzuki 1.3 engine and what does the manual or drawing say on the redrive? Can a 1.7 common rail diesel also be tried.

 

Anybody trying for reduced stall and landing speed?

 

Thanks for responding for a newbie from the Sunny India.

Take a look at the Hyundai 1.5 liter 82 HP common rail turbo diesel, the Toyota Corolla and Yaris 1.4 D-4D 90 HP and weighing 108 kg, or even better the all new Mitsubishi Colt 1.5 liter 95 HP alluminium head and aluminium block common rail turbodiesel (should weigh about 110 kg). The designer of the IBIS, however, insists on a VW engine for weight reasons. How much does a 2.0 liter aircooled VW boxer weigh?

 

Kumaros

[Avi005]

Thanks Kumaros,

 

Can You give me links to check out the used market where the hyundai 1.5 CRDI and the yaris deisel engines are available. You also mentioned somewhere about the merc deisel at arount 500 Euro.

 

I am keen to talk to any of the IBIS builders to get their views and as long as the engine wt and dimensions are in the similar range, which I gues they might be, why the French IBIS designer should have reservations?

 

Anybody concerned with a high stall and landing speed of this baby. The construction costs are claimed to be in the region of 5000 Euro.

 

Avi005

[kumaros]

Thanks Kumaros,

 

Can You give me links to check out the used market where the hyundai 1.5 CRDI and the yaris deisel engines are available. You also mentioned somewhere about the merc deisel at arount 500 Euro.

 

I am keen to talk to any of the IBIS builders to get their views and as long as the engine wt and dimensions are in the similar range, which I gues they might be, why the French IBIS designer should have reservations?

 

Anybody concerned with a high stall and landing speed of this baby. The construction costs are claimed to be in the region of 5000 Euro.

 

Avi005

I can give you a couple of links to the European used car market, including cars wrecked in accidents, as potential engine donors:

http://eng.autoscout24.com/home/index/search.asp?make=0&country=D&model=0&eurofrom=0&euroto=0&mileagefrom=0&mileageto=0&yearfrom=0&yearto=0&radius=0&zip=&extendedsearch=Extended

http://www.mobile.de/SIDAjNIr3BYCPeYeCwQ-K5oEw-t-vaNexlCsCsK~BmSB11Iindex_cgiJ1112433536A2D1100CCar/cgi-bin/index_cgi.pl?_form=search&sr_make=-2&sr_model=&sr_priceFrom=-2&sr_priceTo=-2&sr_category=1100&sr_powerFrom=-2&sr_powerTo=-2&sr_registrationDateFrom=-2&sr_registrationDateTo=-2&sr_mileageFrom=-2&sr_mileageTo=-2&sr_country=-2&sr_zip=&sr_zipRadiusTo=-2&doDetailSearch.x=46&doDetailSearch.y=8

 

For you, however, it may be cheaper, closer, more convenient to search the Korean or Japanese used car and engine market, but you'll have to do your own Googling for this.

As far as engine weight for the Ibis is concerned, I'm sure you've read the recommendations of the designer, specifying a VW air-cooled boxer for weight and power reasons. The closest I could find to the recommended engine would be this Limbach, VW-conversion. Look at the O-122 engine, (2.0 liter boxer):

http://home.adelphia.net/~aeroengine/Limbach.html

I don't know what you mean be Merc diesel for EUR 500. If you mean the Mercedes/Mitsubishi 1.5 liter turbo diesel, it's all new on the market, so even a wrecked car (a Mitsubishi Colt not even one year old) would go for about EUR 3000. If you mean the Mercedes Benz 3.0 liter V6 turbo diesel (from a Mercedes Benz car costing about EUR 40000), also all new, the engine alone would be about EUR 5000, not 500.

I wish you good luck in your endeavour and please keep us posted about your progress.

 

Kumaros

[H.Zwakenberg]

Hi Group,

 

just a quick note to let you know that I joined your group. Due to the fact that I'm building an Ibis, I thought it might be a good idea to join CanardZone.

 

cheers,

 

Hans

 

_____________________________

JC.03 IBIS "The French Canard" | Homebuilt aircraft project

[H.Zwakenberg]

Take a look at the Hyundai 1.5 liter 82 HP common rail turbo diesel, the Toyota Corolla and Yaris 1.4 D-4D 90 HP and weighing 108 kg, or even better the all new Mitsubishi Colt 1.5 liter 95 HP alluminium head and aluminium block common rail turbodiesel (should weigh about 110 kg). The designer of the IBIS, however, insists on a VW engine for weight reasons. How much does a 2.0 liter aircooled VW boxer weigh?

 

Kumaros

 

Hi Kumaros,

 

a lightweigt VW-derivative (AeroVee & others) weigh in at around 75 kgs, which happens to be about the maximum that the design can cater for. The builder's manual is rather specific about this....

If you want to install something lighter still - like the 80HP Jabiru - you need to extend the engine mount a bit, to get CG just right. Take care, though: extending the mount too much can wreak havoc with your prop during rotation and touch-down, especially so on a grass strip.

[Jon Matcho]

Due to the fact that I'm building an Ibis, I thought it might be a good idea to join CanardZone.

I'm glad you did. I think the IBIS is a great plane, and if I wasn't fixed on my Cozy, I'd seriously consider it. Its takeoff and landing distances are much shorter than the Cozy.

 

Also fantastic Web site -- I got lost in it for quite a while. I'm impressed with the IBIS's control system: no cables on elevator, ailerons, and flaperon! AND a steerable nose wheel.

 

Welcome to the forum Hans. Please do keep us posted on your IBIS.

 

Johno and Jules, how are you guys doing? Still building?

[H.Zwakenberg]

Hi Jon,

 

Also fantastic Web site -- I got lost in it for quite a while.

Thanks for your comments Expect my site to expand quite a bit, not only in the building section (I've only just begun...), but also with extra information on canards in general and information on the European homebuilt aircraft scene.

Also, the sections about flight preparation will be expanded. Please note that my site will focus on the European scene only. There's plenty of sites around that provide similar information for other parts of the world...

 

I invite everyone to check out MY IBIS SITE. Comments on how I can inprove the information content is welcome indeed. Please note that quite a few menu items don't contain content just yet, as I've only just begun building. Currently, my main focus is on materials procurement....

 

I'm impressed with the IBIS's control system: no cables on elevator, ailerons, and flaperon! AND a steerable nose wheel.

Yes, almost all controls are pushrod actuated, with the exception of the steerable nose wheel, which is controlled with cable - sporting an elegant spring system to pull everything back to neutral, as it is linked to the pushrod activated directional control devices built into the winglets.

The flaperon mixer is a beaty: very simple and elegant, it takes care of getting the right amount of aileron and flaps just right. Please note that in cruise condition, the flap setting is slightly UP to reduce drag, just like modern sailplanes do... You can see a picture of the mixer on THIS PAGE. These pictures were taken during my visiting a Dutch IBIS builder, who's ahead of me by a large margin...

 

bye

Hans

[Jon Matcho]

The flaperon mixer is a beaty: very simple and elegant, it takes care of getting the right amount of aileron and flaps just right.

It took me a while to realize that the primary control stick is in the middle, between the legs, as opposed to the stick on the mixer apparatus. I'm still not quite sure I get it, but continue to be impressed with the engineering.

 

How much are the plans these days?

[H.Zwakenberg]

It took me a while to realize that the primary control stick is in the middle, between the legs, as opposed to the stick on the mixer apparatus. I'm still not quite sure I get it, but continue to be impressed with the engineering.

The stick you see on the picture that I mentioned above is the rear seat stick, or more precise: the stub over which the rear stick proper will be placed. It follows that a rather large part of the mixer assembly is located below the rear seat...

 

How much are the plans these days?

To be honest: I don't know, as I took over the paperwork (drawings/license, etc) from an abandoned project. I contacted JC and he confirmed in writing that the license transfer was ok.

[Jon Matcho]

The stick you see on the picture that I mentioned above is the rear seat stick, or more precise: the stub over which the rear stick proper will be placed. It follows that a rather large part of the mixer assembly is located below the rear seat...

Ah, much clearer now. Minus the flaperon and steerable nose wheel, this setup is similar to that of the VariEze, Long-EZ, and Cozy planes -- cables only for the rudder (I think).

 

One thing I did NOT see on the Junqua Web site is any reference to "stall resistance". The only reference I could find was, "The stall caracteristics are smooth." For the VariEze, Long-EZ, and Cozy planes, 'stall resistance' is a big deal, where the canard is designed to stall before the main wing so that it's difficult to get the main wing to stall. Is 'stall resistance' something that's discussed in the IBIS community?

[H.Zwakenberg]

Is 'stall resistance' something that's discussed in the IBIS community?

I'm rather new to the (still rather tiny) IBIS community. My first impression is, that IBIS builders generally don't exchange information all that much. There's a Yahoo community , currently with only 81 members. Of these, less than 10% are actual builders. There are other reasons why open communication isn't flourishing within this community, but I'd rather comment on that in a PM...

 

As to stall behavior: of course the front surface needs to stall first and apparently, so it does with IBIS. The designer didn't use any modern laminar sections, so I think the old problem of flying in rain or flying bug littered is as critical as it used to be with the Rutan designs and their derivatives. The canard wing looks like a slotted NACA 23015 to me, but I haven't really compared the ordinates just yet. The section of the main wing is a bit fuller and the location of the maximum thickness is a bit further aft, but it still is a conventional (non-laminar) section.

 

Since the IBIS is cruising with appr. 10° up-elevons, I'd like to know how she stalls in that configuration. So far, no one gave me the skinny on that, I have to consult with JC to learn more about this...

[H.Zwakenberg]

I'm rather new to the (still rather tiny) IBIS community. My first impression is, that IBIS builders generally don't exchange information all that much. There's a Yahoo community , currently with only 81 members. Of these, less than 10% are actual builders. There are other reasons why open communication isn't flourishing within this community, but I'd rather comment on that in a PM...

 

As to stall behavior: of course the front surface needs to stall first and apparently, so it does with IBIS. The designer didn't use any modern laminar sections, so I think the old problem of flying in rain or flying bug littered is as critical as it used to be with the Rutan designs and their derivatives. The canard wing looks like a slotted NACA 23015 to me, but I haven't really compared the ordinates just yet. The section of the main wing is a bit fuller and the location of the maximum thickness is a bit further aft, but it still is a conventional (non-laminar) section.

 

Since the IBIS is cruising with appr. 10° up-elevons, I'd like to know how she stalls in that configuration. So far, no one gave me the skinny on that, I have to consult with JC to learn more about this...

 

I can now confirm with certainty that the front wing sports a slotted NACA 23012 section. The slot is at 75% chord.

 

The main wing has a GAW-1 section, but I don't know yet which one of the GAW-1 sections it is. I'll keep you posted.

 

bye

Hans

[H.Zwakenberg]

The IBIS main wing's section is most likely LS(1)-0417 (GA(W)-1)

 

bye

Hans