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Unusual Canards


No4

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The Japanese tried to introduce the Kyushu Shinden (Magnificent Lightning) in 1945, but were (thankfuly) too late.

 

"The Shinden was an all metal airplane with a 2,000 hp Mitsubishi Ha 43-42 eighteen cylinder aircooled radial engine mounted in the rear, driving a 6-blade propeller"

 

http://www.eagle.ca/~harry/aircraft/shinden/

 

:D

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The Coconut King

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In regard to unusual canards, many years ago, I belonged to a group who restored World War II and post War naval fighters for display purposes. They were given some hanger space at the Willow Grove Naval Air Station outside of Philadelphia. At the time, we we worked on an experimental Navt jet delta wing fighter which had a retractable water ski. This design never panned out. One weekend, we were invited to visit the Paul Garber Facility of the National Airospace museum in Maryland. This is a large facility where planes are restored and repaired for exhibit at the museum. While there, we saw many interesting craft, including the Kyushu J7W1 Shinden (disassembled),

the first Jet Bomber (German) and the Enola Gay (disassembled). It was an erie experience looking from the front, into the cockpit at the bomb sight. Apropho the Shinden, if they had managed to put a jet engine into this thing, I suspect it would have made one wicked air defence fighter. Anyhow, that's just my two cents worth.

Jack Kretmar

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Cheers Jack,

That must have been the Convair XF2Y-1 Sea Dart you were working on?

I saw something on Discovery that pretty much rubbished the idea, but I read it was through a lack of funds and requirement it was scrapped.

 

Thanks Phil,

Thats an interesting design, 100 mph on 25 hp is incredible. I like this bit

"....after testing a dozen small propellers of wood, aluminium and carbon fibre, with costs ranging to hundreds of dollars. The prototype ended up using a commercial PVC airconditioning fan blade which at the time cost $5.00."

 

Here's a couple from Focke-Wulf of the German 1930's, George Wulf died testing the F19

 

http://www.luft46.com/fw/fw42.html#F19a

 

:D

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The Coconut King

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Several months back I watched a program on the Discovery Wings channel that traced the progress of the jet engine during WWII. The most interesting part to me was how the design was given to the Japanese right before the end of the war. The Japanese came up with a canard design jet. (It looked like a sleeker version of the Shinden picture above.) It was only a few weeks away from production when Japan surrendered. That aircraft could have easily changed the direction of the war.

 

Anyone run across pictures of it on your net travels? :)

This ain't rocket surgery!

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"....Of the few items to be corrected was the strong torque pull to the right on takeoff and noticeable vibration in the propeller and its extended drive shaft. Solutions were underway to correct these problems, but both would have been negated by the planned use of the 1 ,984 Ib thrust Ne 130 turbojet for an advanced model which was to have been the J7W2 Shinden Kai. "

 

or it could be the Mizuno "Sinryu" Type 2 Rocket Intercepter

 

http://www.geocities.com/unicraftmodels/on/shinryu/shinryu.htm

 

:D

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The Coconut King

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... I read that part. But the design I remember had more of a delta wing shape to the canard. It also had the open nose for the jet air intake, and a more streamlined canopy. It did have the twin rudders mounted midway on the wings. I gues it was just a variation of the Shinden.

 

The point of the program is that, current aircraft could not reach US bombers in time at altitude. The Jet powered aircraft would easily be able to climb to high altitudes quickly and shoot down approaching bombers. How would that have changed the war? How well would our Corsairs faired against them? A few more weeks could have made a huge difference.

This ain't rocket surgery!

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FYI When General LeMay took over bomb wing in pacfic he found high alt. bombing no good. Cause, Devine wind, or was it the jet stream. Low altitude bombing. Army Airforce

oreration. P 51 escorts. A fighter pilot (Major Tapp No.2 Ace 78 Fighter Squadron WWII) who was on the escorts told me the Japanes defence planes were either going straight up or straight down. Easy pickins. no Navy. No need for jet intersept due to low level bombing.

Korea differnt story. Corsairs, and migs.

One other note a lot of those pilots became crippled after the war due to Oxygen depravation. Cause; High altitude flying to and from Japan from Iwojima airfield.

If the phone don't ring. It's me

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Greetings No. 4. Christchurch, NZ, eh? How are things in the islands down under? I see you are into unusual aircraft.

Yes, we workrd on the Sea Dart. I understand the concept was to lower the craft into the sea from a ship. The hull floated. As the engine reved up and the plane picked up speed, the ski was slowly extended for hydroplaning to raise the hull. If the sea wasn't glass smooth, the plane would buck so sevearly, it practically knocked out the test pilot. That ended the project.

Jack Kretmar

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Beeeyoutiful sunny day here in the high 80's, just back from riding my motorbike along the beach, went a bit silly in the forest afterwards and am now nursing a very nice set of cuts, grazes and a sore knee. How is New Jersey? (I'm hoping it's freezing cold and you are really jealous).

 

I'm a firm believer in the "if it looks right, it'll fly right!" design philosophy; when I saw the video of the Sea Dart I just thought no, no, no what were they thinking! A bit like the Boeing VTOL beast at the moment, and I have my doubts about the new JSF aswell.

 

A link to Canard Jet Fighters, the whole site is devoted to "strange machinery", fantastic stuff.

 

http://www.strange-mecha.com/aircraft/Ente/canard.htm

 

Here's the link for other canards, very impressed by the Henschel.

 

http://www.strange-mecha.com/aircraft/Ente/ente.htm

 

 

I think the Nazi's were responsible for some of the finest aircraft designs ever known. It's not a canard but my favourite is the Dornier 335, a push-pull fighter bomber, that if it had made production would have destroyed our Spitfires, Mustangs and all the bombers they were protecting

 

.

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The Coconut King

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  • 4 years later...

One unusual Canard:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XB-70_Valkyrie

 

I was looking at an aircraft yesterday on this forum that reminded me of the XB-70 except that it was a 2 seat tandem that some germans were selling in prototype and rights for 1 mil.

 

This is a really neat airplane that encountered a series of unfortunate events.

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