Jump to content

Cozy III accident at Islip, NY


Recommended Posts

Just in case some people here don't read the Cozy list....

Rich Hughes's Lycoming IO360 powered Cozy III suffered an engine failure on final approach to ISP yesterday morning and impacted a house in Holbrook, NY. The pilot, Rich, walked away with minor scratches, the airplane was destroyed. See attached picture from http://newsday.com. Article at http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-plane1202,0,1285555.story?coll=ny-linews-headlines

post-3-141090151894_thumb.jpg

I can be reached on the "other" forum http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The fact that he walked away from this accident lends a lot of credibility to the integrity of the cockpit of this plane.

 

I didn't care much for the article. They focused alot on the airport, neighbors who knew this would happen, how it was a miracle that the pilot didn't plow into a bunch of kids, and that this is the 3rd accident for the pilot.

Mike LaFLeur - Cozy MkIV #1155
N68ML
76225.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yea; schematics is a far better word than plans guys and girls. They have to lead the public into believing that they know what the heck they are talking about. Was this kid a Navy pilot?

 

Of course the kids mentioned in the article would all be to stupid to get the heck out of the way.

 

What really kills me is the people that complain about living to close to the airport and its traffic. Idiots

 

One last thing; should an arrester hook be implimented into the schematics for landings such as these?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was this kid a Navy pilot?

Is this a cheap shot of the men and women who are Navy pilots? FYI an friend of mine is a Navy pilot who pilots an E-2 Sea Hawkeye off the USS Nimitz. A very intelligent man and a GREAT pilot!! He's also an instructor who teaches uncontrolled flight recovery techniques in jets for new Navy pilots. Being very interested in homebuilts, he always makes makes the time to come out for a day of working on our Cozy MKIV projects whenever he's in town. He just got back from the Persian Gulf after a 7 month deployment. His plane was the first off the ship when they arrived there. Attatched is the front page of the Ventura County Star with a picture of him hugging his wife on the tarmac after being away for nearly a year. You are in VERY poor taste attempting humor at the expense of those putting their lives on the line to protect us.http://www1.venturacountystar.com/vcs/county_news/article/0,1375,VCS_226_2403922,00.html

Dave Clifford

"The Metal Man" Musketeer

Vise grip hands and Micrometer eyes!!

 

Cozy MKIV Plans #656

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No sir!

 

Dont turn this into an anti-america, anti-armed forces thing. JEEZE

 

Both of my brothers are in the armed forces.

 

I guess you have to be around military personel or have some in your family to understand thier humor.

 

Hey if it makes you feel better my brother works in supply for

F-16's with the airfarce. They call their F-16's Yard Darts.

 

I am the farthest thing from anti-american. Its was all meant in good humor.

 

TES111

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote by Marc Zeitlin:Rich Hughes HAS fuel injection on his O-360. There is no carb heat on his plane.

 

I was commenting on carbureted engines and the problem with carb ice, not HIS plane in general.

Dave Clifford

"The Metal Man" Musketeer

Vise grip hands and Micrometer eyes!!

 

Cozy MKIV Plans #656

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I heard the engine was full of metal. Seems he mismatched cylinder/rings and ate up a jug or set of rings. Got the right jug/rings but opted not to tear the engine down and clean it out (against lots of competent advice) and just changed the oil and went flying. All the metal he'd been making caught up to him.

 

Fella' was talkin' like he knew ... Jim S.

...Destiny's Plaything...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

It appears that he may have switched the fuel selector valve to OFF instead of RIGHT. NTSB started the engine up and ran it on the same fuel in the tanks at different power settings for 15 minutes. I don't like to think about all the different mistakes we can make while distracted on T/O or Landing.

 

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20031218X02056&key=1

This ain't rocket surgery!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All is fair in horseshoes, hand-grenades .....and accident investigations?

 

Given that fuel to "off" is SOP during forced landing, the plane flew about 20 miles since the last change of fuel selector, and the left tank was ruptured in the accident, do you think perhaps "It appears that he may have switched the fuel selector valve to OFF instead of RIGHT" is a little unfair on the pilot?

 

I spoke to Rich a couple of days ago. He's fine, except that I think he's getting a little sick of being beaten on by people who don't know the facts and prefer to make assumtions.

 

According to Rich, the engine was fitted with a pull to close, spring to open throttle cable system. The most likely explanation at this point seems to be icing on the throttle body plate after a long cold decent.

I can be reached on the "other" forum http://canardaviationforum.dmt.net

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes..close enough for hand grenades and horse shoes...

 

All is fair in love and war...( and what you tell your significant other [ why ] you need more stuff for your aiplane project "We could fly to your Mom's and be back home for supper with this new GPS!

")

 

I think Marbleturtle is mincing adages for fun.

 

Last post in 2003 maybe..

Kevin

Back to building... #618 Cozy MK IV

 

My Cozy web pages, courtesy: Rick Maddy... :cool: WN9G :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm sure he's tired of hearing all of the speculation. I didn't mean to pile on more. NTSB found the fuel selector position important enough to report it. I hope someone wouldn't mistakenly select the off position, and I don't want to be a fair weather quarterback... but then I just read a report about a Lancair IV that crashed on T/O because the pilot forgot to set his flaps. This was after looking at Wayne Hicks (I think it was his) site discussing failure prevention. I'm thinking out loud too much...

 

Remember, not everything that shines is baloney! And Happy New Year!

This ain't rocket surgery!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't blame Rich for feeling put upon. It happens every time. It's human nature. Speculating on causes of stuff and second guessing the principals is a VERY widespread pastime. Actually, more like a group obsession. I've been the recipient of that type of thing a few times, and I've indulged it more often than I like to admit. We all seem to have an urgent need for answers - before our own next flight or at least by sundown. We devour incomplete scraps of information from preliminary investigations, and speculate around the discrepancies in statements of the various players and witnesses to come up with something we can bump against what we would [/should] do in similar circumstances. Interpretations and speculations are, of course, ALWAYS biased against the pilot. It's monday morning quarterbacking raised to a high art. The fact that it's part of the game, and there's no offense meant, doesn't make it any easier to take.

 

We usually take something useful away from the exercise though (or at least we damn sure should). I can't count the guys I knew who were killed (or had some of those "intense learning experiences" our daddies warned us about) doing stuff that we all did. Examining their [apparent] actions and thinking them through led me to alter some of the ways I did stuff. I know that I'm still walking around largely for having gone through that process.

 

Even the unfounded rumors can have value if carefully examined for stuff that could bite me if I encountered it.

...Destiny's Plaything...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Well there is Murphy's law, and then there is selecting alternate air at any sign of induction ice and warming your engine on descent.

It's not the first time this has happened in an aircraft, they teach it to you in your PPL.

 

Some people here are fearful of retracts, some get upset if you mention aerobatics, and enraged if you enquire about the flight envelope of the Cozy.

If I may quote Dirty Harry " Mans just gotta know his limitations."

 

It just depends on what sort of pilot you want to be.

There are no good excuses when you or someone else is dead.

 

This guy is responsible for the construction, equipment fitted, and maintenance of this plane. Furthermore he managed to land on a house.

I hope we can all learn from his unfortunate circumstances.

 

 

For the record I suggest carb heat or alternate air ON at any sign of icing conditions, especialy on decent. Remember Mixture rich, and fuel pumps on.

Especialy if using an air cooled aero engine, bring up the manifold pressure well before you reach the circuit. That may mean planning your descent very carefuly.

The Coconut King

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Which is why they have an alternate air source which draws hot air from the engine cowling.

 

The P68 Partenavia has two IO-360's with ram air ducts right behind the prop. Induction ice is very common on the P68. Any time entering cloud or near icing conditions, and it's alternate air on for me. Same in the Arrow with an IO-360, although there is less chance of induction ice. Lycosaurus 0-360's with carburettors get the carb heat treatment every time.

Down here in the southern alps of NZ, there are not too many places for a forced landing. Hail, snow, and freezing rain are common enough to make good engine management essential.

 

Once you understand Bernoulli's theorem, that air accelerates, drops in temperature and pressure as it passes through a carb or semi closed throttle plate (or over a wing for that matter); It is a simple leap of faith to realise that descending through cold damp air with the throttle closed is likely to induce ice formation.

 

Cases of carb icing have been recorded at up to 30'Centigrade in conditions of high humidity.

 

Murphy states that your toast will hit the deck on the butter and marmalade side.

Bad maintenance or pilot decision making decides when you are going to crash.

The Coconut King

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by John Slade

... fuel injected airplane ...No carb heat fitted because you're not supposed to be able to get icing with FI.

True enough. We don't have all the facts. I read the preliminary report and it was not notably enlightening ... no "smoking gun" and no clue, really, as to what actually took place. Lots of possibilities, no hard facts.

 

It did renew my faith in a couple of superstitions I've been carrying aroung for some years now. Like I stay away from idle descents. I've heard all the old wives tales about shock cooling, but on a few occasions I tried that out, my CHTs didn't change much from idle to 18" MAP, but I stay away from idle anyway. I endeavor to descend at roughly the power setting it takes to maintain 100 kts @ 1000'. If I get too close, I deploy the belly board. If I get waaay too close, I S-turn or do a 360 but I keep power on. I do this mainly so that if the engine does stop (as they're known to do from time to time when at idle), I'll know much sooner if I have some power on than if I don't. The sooner I discover my engine has stopped, the more likely I am going to be able to re-start it or pick the least terrible spot to crash. I've discovered that in an idle descent, particularly a faster one (more nose down) you vent the fuel lines coming out of the strake with a lot more fuel on board than one would guess (anoher compelling reason for a fuel sump in my Cozy IMO).

 

I've had that happen just experimenting in my Velocity ... near the end a descent from high altitude, I had the sump low fuel light come on when I knew I had something on the order of 5 gal in each strake. I had vented the strake fuel lines right at the start, and by the time I got down low, I had burned off the top little bit in the sump and activated the low fuel warning. I pulled the nose up and in a few seconds the light went out. If I'd been in my EZ, the first warning I would have gotten would have been the silence, and at idle, who knows how long it would have taken me to notice it. The insidious part of this phenomenon is that it flies in the face of conventional procedures - we're taught that when the engine fails, set up max range glide and do your stuff with re-start attempts, forced landing, etc. - but the glide attitude might be what got you into trouble. For my EZ, as I turn on my boost pump, I pull the nose UP, at least high enough and long enough to ensure that the blisters are full, and then start to set up my glide, etc.

 

I don't recall how much fuel Rich had on board or how much was in the selected tank. I seem to recall the FAA said one tank was empty, but with the airplane that torn up, it could have leaked out. Besides that, Rich said he started with a lot more fuel on board than he could have burned on that trip, and I have to go with that pretty much.

 

Just a theory .... Jim S.

...Destiny's Plaything...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information