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GregL

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I had noticed "Dust" found out that Continental's diesel is two years away. Lycoming is working with another diesel company. DeltaHawk Diesel has a 160HP engine flying. I'm a future Cozy IV builder. Perhaps by the time I finish it, a rebuilt DD will be available, however they estimate a TBO rebuild cost at $4000. I would guess folks would hang on to them for that cost. It just seems to me that the DD engine is the way to go. My advantage is that I'm not in the middle of building, and I can observe the reliability of DD's after they're in production.:)

GregL

Cozy IV Plans #1161

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If they have a 250hp unit than I would guess that you could get 180 at 2700 and have no PSRU.

 

As a point of interest. The VW TDI had 90 hp when it was releaseed. now it has 150HP. Some people are reprogramming the chips and getting over 200. If Volvo hasent tapped this motor out fully (and they havent) then you could easily expect a comparable increase, perhaps not as much, as Volvo don't do many auto diesels.

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I don't think she'll have the minerals at 2700 rpm, but maybe I could use one of marbles'ducted fans?

here's a link for the specs on a chipped version http://www.heicosportiv.de/images-produkte/bilder-produkte/s60-d5-190-ps.pdf

With the exhaust gas recirculation removed, that should save some weight and give some hp, then with a good induction set up, intercooler and extractors, 200+hp sounds good to me.

$25,000 sounds like a lot of money to gamble on the Deltahawk, and I don't like two strokes.

Here's the original power curve...

post-281-141090151821_thumb.jpg

The Coconut King

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I get queasy thinking about going 10,000+ ft in the air with a motor pushing out more than it was designed for. Common rail is nice, but they need alot of juice. Opening up injector and pushing out 1500+ bar of Jet A takes alot. The system I'm working on needs 18 amps at 130 volts.

 

I love diesels and the new technologies, but for up in the air, I like simplicity; 2-stroke, mechanical injection.

Mike LaFLeur - Cozy MkIV #1155
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Could you expand on Common rails "need a lot of juice", is this with reference to a mechanical pump?

What system are you working on with 18 amps and 130 volts?

Is a 2 stroke really any simpler?

The Coconut King

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The mechanical pump I'm referring to is the DeltaHawk. Two-stroke is simpler because there is no valve train to speak of. Don't have to worry about leaking, sticking, bending, collapsd, or burnt valves/springs.

 

The common rail is really just electronic fuel injection on a diesel. But we've found that if we regulate the injection to a certain pattern, we can increase effiency and reduce clatter. Thus Mercedes/Volvo/VW and others now have these effecient, fast diesels in Europe. Some are here in the US now. The Sprinter van that you see around (in the States) now by Freightliner has the Mercedes common rail diesel.

Mike LaFLeur - Cozy MkIV #1155
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Mplafleur; you haven’t clarified what you meant by “Needs a lot of juice.” There is no production diesel injection system that uses 130 volts and 18 amps.

 

There is no production Injection motor requiring 130 volts. None requiring 18 amps at 130 volts.

Diesels are now going through the same kind of revolution that gas went through in the 80's and 90's. In brief this is due to two things. High pressure fuel injection pumps with variable volume abilities and multi stage injectors. Precise, computer control of both of these is required.

 

Although this makes diesels more complicated, the power and efficiency gains are deemed worth it, just like fuel injection on gas motors. Would you fly a carbed gas motor if you had a choice?

To suggest you “have to worry about” these systems is a bit of a red herring. Do you worry connecting rods failing? So a 1 cylinder design is better than a 4 cylinder? These systems alone have more miles and time on them than all Lycoming and continental ENGINES ever made combined.

 

Two strokes are a natural fit with diesels. I don’t know how the intake and exhaust of the Deltahawk motors work. Without overhead valves then you have the ‘weed eater’ cross flow design with its significant thermal expansion/contraction issues. Ask Detroit diesel. Of all the diesel two strokes I think Zoche has the best design. But if it never gets made how good is it?

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I don't know what the total system load is, but the requirements of the injector is 18A at 130 volts. The 130 volts is generated by the control module by a boost supply or a charge pump. The engine would still only require a 12 volt battery. But now I need a bigger battery and a bigger alternator.

 

I am going to pull an engine out of a car this weekend (so I won't be out this Saturday to help on the plane as a slave) that has a connecting rod failure. A year ago I had to overhaul an engine because of a broken timing chain. The point is: things always fail and the less parts you have, the less chance of one of them failing.

 

Now maybe by the time I am ready to put a powerplant into my Cozy, I will consider an automotive CDI if there is one proven to be reliable. Things change, but for now the Deltahawk is number one on my list.

Mike LaFLeur - Cozy MkIV #1155
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I'm a bit confused mplafleur,

Are you part of Deltahawk or a prospective customer?

Is it the Deltahawk that needs 18 amps and 130 volts?

If so does that mean it is a mechanical injector pump using an electric motor?

As for reliability etc there are plenty of diesels that would be ideal in a plane, just they are too heavy and underpowered. I've driven a landcruiser with water half way up the windscreen, pulled three trailers of cattle in 150 'heat, and chugged through two foot of snow at 7000 feet; all in turbo diesels and never a worry.

I grew up with Volvo's and rate them as good reliable cars. The D5 has Mercedes, VW, BMW etc crying in their soup. The engine is mass produced, the block amongst other things also sits in the 300hp T5R, the injector pump is likewise mass produced by Bosch. Pretty soon people will start wrecking Volvo's with D5's in them so there will be plenty around, and at an affordable price. Sure I'll have to change the rings and timing chain every so often.

To me that makes more sense than an experimental prototype engine from a company that may go under at any time.

I've never seen a 2 stroke diesel, the concept looks good, but I think a 4 stroke diesel is a very good system. 2's are no more efficient than 4's, infact probably less so due to using the supercharger to scavenge the cylinder, just lighter, and ás a wise man once said "If it ain't broke don't try and fix it".

Good Luck to Deltahawk with their motor.

The Coconut King

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There is no automobile that uses a 130V 18 amp injector. Period.

A standard auto alternator is 70-130 amps at 14V. Diesels are usualy small, around 70. The VW 1.9L TDI uses a 70 amp. A 130V 18A injector would require a 180A alternator just to run the injectors.

 

This idea of one injector requiring 130V @ 18A is preposterous. Do you have any supporting information?

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LargePrime,

 

Proposterous, not so. The control module is supplied with 12-14 volts as any other car battery. The control module boosts the supply voltage to 130 volts for the injection event. (which is very short) Peak current is 18 amps. This is in production currently overseas. I can speak to you about this more in person the next time I am over on a Saturday.

 

No4,

 

I'm a prospective Deltahawk customer.

The injector is for an automotive common rail mode application.

I agree that most diesels are far too heavy for an airplane, but the two stroke has a better hp to weight ratio than gas engines. I love the common rail mode technology and the new life it has brought back to diesels. I love to see diesels kick gassers butts!

I'm not dissing the Volvo. I'm not acquainted enough with it to do so. It may be a fine engine. Time will tell, or maybe it already has.

I have three diesels cars, all with Bosch injection pumps. They have been running diesels for many decades now.

I just loved the Zoche (sp?) but he dissapeard off the face of the earth. No more web site, No more Oshkosh.:(

Mike LaFLeur - Cozy MkIV #1155
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